Lead warning for Titanium White??

Ant Carlos · 05-27-2005, 10:24 AM

Hi all,

I like to use cheaper white paint for my experiments, especially in large pictures, or large backgrounds. Since I found the Winsor & Newton Winton Titanium White a good product for my experiments, I use to purchase their 200ml tube. But in the last one I got the LEAD WARNING label, in the box and in the tube label inside (see attached images). Is this correct? This scared me. I tend to avoid paints that contain lead because sometimes I find spots of paints all over my hands and arms after a painting session (maybe splits occur when I paint with vigorous and fast strokes). For that reason, I use Flake White in my paintings only for highlights and final strokes, taking extra care, of course.
Now, what do I do about this? Should I consider they made a mistake adding this lead warning (twice? In the box and in the tube labels?). Or does it actually contain some lead?
I appreciate your opinion.

Cheers,

Ant

Richard Monro · 05-27-2005, 03:36 PM

Ant,

The paint may be fine and the warning may apply to the tube which might be made of lead. It might be a good idea to check. Lead on the skin is not a great danger. Swallowing the lead is another matter...very bad for long term health.

Garth Herrick · 05-27-2005, 04:20 PM

It must have very little if any lead at all, unless it gives those characteristic warm tints, only lead white can provide.

Maybe it is a typographical error. Or maybe this white is milled on the same machinery as their flake white. Maybe there is a lead drier in the paint to help it dry faster (I'd vote for this one).

Garth

Linda Brandon · 05-27-2005, 09:46 PM

Hi Ant,

Seeing how big your paintings are, I can understand how you might be concerned about working with a lot of lead white.

I use a lot of it and I get a blood test for lead levels every year since I always seem to be putting my brush handles in my mouth. I encourage you to get the test if you're at all concerned about toxicity.

Ant Carlos · 05-28-2005, 11:26 AM

Hi Linda,

so far, there are no large paintings displayed in my website. However, I am working on some experiments, religious groups of life-size figures (that's about 2,5 x 3 meters or so), and I also have a project to make a series of 12 landscape paintings of areas that surround my city (their size will be at least 100cm x 150cm). But, yes, I try to avoid lead white even for my regular 70cm x 50cm head'n shoulders. To be sincere, as a self thought artist, maybe it's too late for me to worry about this. When I was a teen, I used my fingers (or even hands) to cover large areas of the canvas and gain time. Brazilian brands never showed any specific interest on warning about hazardous pigments. All labels showed the same "toxic, keep away from children bla bla" thing, which you can read here in almost any product that will not feed you if you swallow it. How could I be aware of heavy metals and it's accumulative danger? Only few years ago, when I went back to my easel after a loooong break and started learning about pigments, I could understand how harmful they can be.
Maybe it's really time for a blood test

Ant

Ant Carlos · 05-28-2005, 11:44 AM

Dear Richard and Garth,

What confuses me is that the previous tube of Titanium White I had purchased doesn't have any warning (see in the photo). Why this? Should be the same product, same pigments, same vehicle, and, what is more important, AS SAFE!
Maybe only W&N could clarify this.

As for tinting, I did not test it yet, but I put some of my tit and led based whites in my palette to compare.
The photo show 9 whites, and I numbered them and took closer shots:
1- It's from my old 200ml tube of W&N Titanium White, that has no lead warning label. Actually, it says NON TOXIC. It's a cool white, opaque as Tit should be.
2- This is from the new 200ml tube, that brings the lead-warning label. It looks a bit warmer indeed (only if you look very carefully), and glossier. It's hard to say if the difference is on the vehicle or the pigment. I come to no conclusion about the lead. I should contact W&N, to satisfy my curiosity.

Ant

Garth Herrick · 05-28-2005, 12:03 PM

Dear Ant,

We should petition for a Forum subsection just devoted to photo-documented side by side comparison of paints!

Anyway the two tubes of paint have the same bar code, but different ratings of permanence. Do these two whites tint the same when mixed with the same color?

Garth

Ant Carlos · 05-28-2005, 12:27 PM

Since I have displayed more whites side by side, I'll continue with the comparison and share this with you:
3- Titanium W by a very popular Brazilian brand. It's cheap, but it's OK for experiments. It's warmer than both W&N (#1 and #2 in the previous post) and very glossy and buttery. I don't like it.
4- Tit W by Maimeri. The coolest of all. Very glossy too, very opaque. Like the #3, it's not of my favorites.
5- Tit W by Talens-Rembrandt. It

Garth Herrick · 05-28-2005, 12:29 PM

Here is a much older, but never used tube of your white, for comparison and history:

Ant Carlos · 05-28-2005, 12:49 PM

Garth,

I did not notice the different ratings of permanence before. Hmmm.
And they do tint differently as well. Mixed with cerulean Blue, a very strong color, the 2nd white did not show too shy. What do you think? Lead? If yes, then why didn't W&N simply add Lead Carbonate (PW1) in the pigments list?
I agree about the foto-documented forum

And it seems I posted this topic in the wrong forum, eh.. I didn't see the forum about paints-brushed before

Anyway, thank you for helping me on this.

Ant