White oil paint

Michael Georges · 12-03-2001, 12:28 PM

Karin: Nice work on the Ingres copy. You are doing the same type of underpainting as we are, you just aren't using our fancy name!

BTW: Titanium white is very fat. It takes a ton of oil to make titanium into paint. Your process might be better served if you considered swapping titanium out for a lead white - either Flake or Crementz. A lot of people have reservations about using lead paints, but if you use a modicum of care, they really are just fine. They dry faster and are better for the painting in the long term because you are putting a lean layer under rather than a fat layer.

Karin Wells · 12-03-2001, 04:03 PM

Because I have serious concerns about the use of lead paint, I use titanium white instead because it is opaque and covers so well. I figured that my Liquin medium overrides the "fat" in the bottom layers problem.

I used to use Permalba white all the time because it paints so well, but because it is a 50%-50% mixture of titanium and zinc, it does not cover as well as straight titanium white.

I only know three kinds of white paint....lead, titanium and zinc....with different mixtures and grades thereof. I have never tried Crementz white....what is it made of?

Maybe we should start a new post on the subject of white oil paint?

Marta Prime · 12-03-2001, 05:28 PM

I know Gamblin makes a color known as Flake White Replacement (no lead) but I have been hesitant to try it without some feedback first. I use Titanium White for the same reasons as Karin. Anyone have any experience with the Flake White Replacement?

Michael Georges · 12-03-2001, 06:42 PM

I have a tube of Gamblin's Flake White Replacement. It isn't. It is funny stuff. It handles a bit like Permalba. It is much whiter than Flake white, it is glossier than Flake White, and it doesn't handle really at all like Flake White. It is basically Titanium and Zinc white.

Back to lead white. Realize that for centuries, lead whites have been the choice for painting grounds and undertones and lead white was and often still is the most permanent and stable white you can use. The overwhelming majority of paintings from 1100 to 1930 have a lead white ground under them. Lead white is extremely stable over time. It is very UV resistant. And, as long as you don't eat it, or smoke around it, or breath it in as a powder, almost anyone with two brain cells to rub together can handle it safely.

The restrictions against lead paint in this country come because of commercial lead house paints that children eat off of the baseboards and get sick from. Few tykes however, nibble on old master works, or for that matter, our paintings today. Further, our lead paint comes already mulled and tubed for us - no powdered lead carbonate to catch the breeze. The Federal scare tactics are unjust in regards to lead paint and fine art. Should lead have been removed from house paints - Yes, IMO. But their broad brush policy covered our works too and (in typical American fashion) I think that is overkill.

As an amendment, all that said, it is the artists choice as to whether they use lead whites or not. There are certainly enough viable alternatives out there today that if you don't even want to deal with the possibility (remote though they are) of complications with lead whites you don't have to.

Marta Prime · 12-03-2001, 07:16 PM

Thank you for your insight Michael. It's kind of what I suspected. One of the books I learned from was Joseph Shepards "How to Paint like the Old Masters". He said that there was nothing that could compare to Flake White. I have grown comfortable painting with Titanium White, and worry about the toxic effects of lead paint, but your email is tempting me to try it. I'm almost afraid if I try it I'll never be happy with Titanium White again. Also, I do occasionally find a glob of paint on my skin, despite precautions. What happens if you get the lead paint on skin? Is it absorbed?

Michael Georges · 12-03-2001, 07:33 PM

Marta: For most people, a little lead paint on the skin will not absorb enough to be even noticable on a blood test - you would have to paint your entire body for a week for regular skin absorbtion to become a problem. Lead is generally absorbed into the body via breathing in dust, or ingesting. Even then, you would have to breathe or eat a considerable amount for it to show up and even more for it to cause health problems. I have a blood test done every couple of years just to be safe - so far (I have only had one test) no problems. I would advise anyone worried about it to do the same.

Khaimraj Seepersad · 12-10-2001, 11:41 AM

Now, now Michael,

See you have made me come out of lurker mode (and I was so enjoying Virgil's posts).

You know that Titanium White comes as a low oil absorption pigment (Dupont) at 13.9 gms oil to 100 gms pigment (lead white is 11 to 14 gms to 100 gms pigment).

We are not back in the 1930's of the 40 to 20 gms oil to 100 gms. pigment era.

Apart from Lead White's toxic nature (blood tests twice a year, and proper disposal), it is still an excellent choice.

However, you can lower the brilliance of Titanium White and it's opacity with blends of zinc oxide, calcium carbonate, blanc fixe and some iron oxide.

Use of the "other" whites - a leap of faith.

Khaimraj (back to lurking)

* Flake White replacement - a little strange
but usable, seems to need a little more oil.

Michael Georges · 12-10-2001, 12:25 PM

Kim: Glad to get you out of lurking!

No, actually I did not know about a low oil Titanium white. It is a good thing to know. The question is, how many of the paint companies are using the Dupont variety?

Khaimraj Seepersad · 12-10-2001, 03:51 PM

Michael,

In conversation with another Fine Artist who has much more experience in the area of pigments, copals and so on. I was told that as far as he knew , there are no in-house - pigments manufacturers for artists.

I guess for commercial tube users, it's pot luck. (Remember the great Rembrandt Lead White discussion at Rob's, and the possibility that Old Master Lead White was coarser and less reactive in Oil than today's Lead White?)

I can tell you, if you had the time to look it up, treatment of pigments before being used in paints, are listed. This one of the reasons, why one shouldn't add to many odd ingredients into mediums and then into paints.

Oh, by the way Einion [Title - Paint Making ], on the other forum, left a link to the National Gallery. If you can get into the search section of the site. Vol 22 of the NG technical bulletin has the answer your looking for on Venice Turpentine, in the Article on Varnishes of the 19th century. Good Reading.

Khaimraj

Michael Georges · 12-10-2001, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Oh, by the way Einion (Title - Paint Making), on the other forum, left a link to the National Gallery. If you can get into the search section of the site. Vol 22 of the NG technical bulletin has the answer you're looking for on Venice Turpentine, in the article on Varnishes of the 19th Century. Good Reading.

Kim:

Thank you so much for that. Will get over there today.