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Old 06-04-2005, 12:49 AM   #11
Linda Brandon Linda Brandon is offline
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Hi Sharon,

I'm struggling with a head myself this week. Sometimes I think I'm not getting the facial expression right, which is really important to me, so I'll keep noodling around until I like who's looking back at me. Other times I am procrastinating about moving an eye an eighth of an inch to the right (which I had to do today) and I rework everything else until I decide to bite the bullet and move the eye.

When all else fails I try to talk the client into a profile, which I usually get very excited about. This hardly ever works, though.

Gosh, I've repainted a head ten or twelve times, at least.
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Old 06-04-2005, 01:22 AM   #12
Terri Ficenec Terri Ficenec is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda Brandon
. . . Other times I am procrastinating about moving an eye an eighth of an inch to the right (which I had to do today) and I rework everything else until I decide to bite the bullet and move the eye. . ..
Linda, that one hit home with me. . .

Sharon -- I've scraped off and repainted 7 times on one painting that I counted... and there was another one that I didn't keep track of that was tricky for me and probably got scraped twice that many times! Staying up through the wee hours of the morning working on something... that's when it's more likely to get scraped off (and all that sleep missed for nothin!). . . 'course that's also when some of the best work gets done. Keep telling myself I've got to get more regular sleep
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Old 06-04-2005, 06:40 PM   #13
Anthony Emmolo Anthony Emmolo is offline
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You guys make me feel so good. I thought it was only me who had to rework things many times.

Anthony
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Old 06-04-2005, 10:32 PM   #14
Mary Reilly Mary Reilly is offline
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Ah yes, "move the eye", now that brings back some memories. I worked on a portrait once and I was happy with everything except one of the eyes. It needed to be moved, and so I did and I did and I did. I think I spent two weeks, with every day moving the eye a little more until I got it right. Wow did I ever labor over that eye!
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Old 06-05-2005, 12:04 AM   #15
Robert McGee Robert McGee is offline
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Talk about timing. I just sat down at the computer to take a break after spending 2 hours working on a self-portrait that I ended up scraping the head off, yet again. I don't know whose face was staring back at me from the canvas - but it certainly wasn't me. You guys make portrait painting look so easy. It's comforting to know that everyone has to struggle - at least a little.
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Old 06-05-2005, 08:00 PM   #16
Thomas Nash Thomas Nash is offline
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Sargent broad style required he get it right or start over

When ones paints broadly as Sargent did, there is a magic that occurs as you work from large masses and large color statements to smaller touches and lighter and darker values. You leave smaller shapes by default, shapes that you never actually drew. Colors and values that at the beginning may look too dark or too light, hopefully turn out to be just right.

There are many illusions to deal with. Sargent didn't start with his darks and approximate the entire look and then polish it up. His technique was quite different. It would be solid, but really not quite "sing" until he put on the final decisions. They either worked or they didn't.

Assumptions (or guesses) have to be made in the early stages as to what the paint you initially apply will look like when later pieces of the puzzle are added. Experience helps one to make better early judgments.

Sargent is famous for his cursing at the canvas, his frustration about the "demons". I am quite certain that he was not upset because he had "messed up" and just applied a stroke sloppily or in the wrong place. I believe he was disappointed because he had just come to realize that something he had earlier assumed to be true turned out not to be.

That is why he sometimes was able to scrape down and paint the head successfully in a relatively short time. Once he solved the puzzle or "saw through the illusions" as I often say, it was just so much brush work and we know he had no problem with that. He contended that one could paint a head in one session if only they could concentrate thoroughly enough. (I'm paraphrasing). I think he means that if one could "figure it out" correctly, painting it was not that big a deal. (maybe not for him!!)

I will quibble a bit with an attitude I often hear, suggesting that he was interested in facile brushwork for it's own sake in order to "make it look like he did it easily and quickly". This sounds somewhat pejorative as if implying that he was trying to deceive us or make himself look more gifted than he was. Maybe I'm being overly sensitive here.

I think we all recognize the superiority of an image that is painted with authority rather than the use of halting, fumbling brush strokes. Robert Henri spoke more eloquently than I can on this subject in "The Art Spirit".

So when Sargent scraped down to start fresh it was not that he wanted someone to think that he did not struggle, but rather he knew that the resultant painting would be more effective, satisfying and beautiful to look at. He knew that the extra effort required to do it right "from the ground up" would make for a better picture.

His "style" was to make his work as good as he knew how. I don't think he felt that going back into the details of a broadly painted picture and doing some remedial fiddling made it as good as it could be, so he backed it up or scarped down to at least the point that he felt it went off the tracks.

Anyway, that's my take on it!
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Old 06-05-2005, 08:24 PM   #17
Carol Norton Carol Norton is offline
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sunny smile It MUST be the stars!

Well, if I didn't know better, I'd say the stars or the moon must be out of place or ... or the ... let's see, what else can I blame it on? I am currently working on a posthumous commission from a very bad photo. I have painted out the face at least 5 times, changed the background and have been working on it for over a week. I've thought about just saying that I can't do it, but the man who asked me to do the painting just lost his wife, and with tears in his eyes, asked me to please paint her portrait for his daughter. The fact that he said he would pay whatever I wanted was a little incentive. And, are you ready for this: all of the photo references show a full smile, were taken with a flash in the sunset in Hawaii. Oh, yes, and the husband is in the painting too. Yipes! What a timely discussion. At least I know that you experts and wonderful painters get frustrated, too.
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Old 06-08-2005, 01:17 PM   #18
Alexandra Tyng Alexandra Tyng is offline
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Sharon,

I can sympathize with what you are going through! Sometimes a likeness comes easily, sometimes it is elusive and frustrating.

Whenever I am having trouble with a head, I wipe it out and start again, sometimes several times. I figure that, each time, I'm getting to know the person's features and bone structure more. At the same time, I try to approach each try with no conscious memory of what I did the last time. I measure the relative distances between features, check proportions, etc., as though I had never seen the person before.

Hope this helps. I have total confidence that you will get the likeness, and that you won't stop until you do!
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