Retouch Varnish Question

Kimberly Dow · 09-11-2005, 02:02 PM

I have a painting from last March when it was particularly cold and the paint was taking forever to dry. I believe I put retouch on it too soon as there are still tacky areas - which of course now have dust and lint accumulated.

Any solutions or suggestions? Im thinking at this point it needs to be painted over.

Richard Monro · 09-11-2005, 07:22 PM

Kim,

Is it the varnish or the paint that is tacky? It will make a difference as to what you will do. Try a test patch to see which is the culprit. I suggest using some paint thinner on a lint free cloth, like cheesecloth, and GENTLY rub the surface of the tacky area. If the tackiness comes off with little or no color your may have had a varnish that never set up because of the cold. If so GENTLY wiping the surface with solvent and clean cloth to remove the varnish will work.

If a lot of color shows up on the cloth, it may be a paint drying problem exacerbated by the varnish layer. I suggest a few more months of drying in that case. Any adhered dust can be removed with a very light rubbing with 600 grit sandpaper when the painting has completely dried.

Kimberly Dow · 09-11-2005, 07:46 PM

Unfortunately, I dont have the painting anymore and it is ..hmmm...nine hours away. I'm hearing about it being tacky, I havent confirmed that for myself. I have to fix it or re-paint it since it is owned by a collector. Ive never had this happen before. I cant imagine any more drying time would make a difference...it's already been since last March. I hope it is the varnish then. I wont get up to that area until November...so I have until then to figure it out.

Thanks for the info Richard!

Richard Monro · 09-11-2005, 08:23 PM

Kim,

You might also try contacting the company that manufactured the varnish. They probably have encountered the problem before and might be able to give you some good guidance.

Wish you success in solving the problem.

Richard Budig · 09-15-2005, 02:37 PM

If I'm not mistaken, retouch varnish is about 10 per cent varnish, and ninety per cent turp. Thus, your problem may well not be a retouch varnish problem. It should have dried long ago. Retouch varnish, as I understand it, and as I use it, is for briefly bringing up all the values to the same degree of "juiciness" so that you can get started on that day's painting in correct values and colors.

That leaves the paint, itself. What paint is underneath? Some colors are notoriously slow driers . . . alizarin, cad yellow . . . I think. If you have some heavy passages of slow drying paint, I would suspect them, first.

The drying part of the problem may be resolved if you can't get up there for another couple of months. It may be dry by then. But as previously suggested, you may have to sand with a very light grit, and repaint a passage. But, do it lightly so that it dries.

Alexandra Tyng · 09-16-2005, 09:36 AM

Kim,

A while ago I tried to buy some W & N matte retouching varnish and all the stores were out of it. This was when I used to mix matte and gloss to get a satin finish. After asking a lot of questions I finally found out that all the matte retouching varnish had been sent back, apparently because it "went bad." When I asked what happened when it went bad, I was told by a couple of store personnel that it didn't dry properly. This could have been true only of the matte version. Does anyone know whether something similar happens to the gloss version? I would check with the company on how to remove it.

Alex

Virgil Elliott · 09-27-2005, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimberly Dow

I have a painting from last March when it was particularly cold and the paint was taking forever to dry. I believe I put retouch on it too soon as there are still tacky areas - which of course now have dust and lint accumulated.

Any solutions or suggestions? Im thinking at this point it needs to be painted over.

Kim,

If it's still tacky after several months, something is wrong. What brand of paints did you use on the parts that are still tacky? Sometimes there is a bad batch that dries poorly with some of these companies who use poppy oil or sunflower oil as binders. If that is what's behind it, I'd scrape out and repaint those sections, using linseed oil paints only.

And don't varnish when it's cold or damp, not even retouch. The best time to varnish is in the middle of a hot, dry day, at least six months after the last brush stroke is dry to the touch. Cold and/or damp poses the risk of water getting into the varnish, and that can cause several problems.

I would also try to determine what the binding oil was in the paints that didn't dry. I'll guess right now that it was not linseed oil, but probably poppy oil, sunflower oil, or maybe safflower oil. I had some paints that didn't dry after something like twelve years on one of my test panels. I threw them out, and never used that brand again for anything I considered important. Sunflower oil and poppy oil do not dry well, so manufacturers who use them add driers to the paint to help them dry, but sometimes there is a bad batch that doesn't get enough drier. Linseed oil is the best binder for oil paints. Poppy and Sunflower are the worst.

Virgil Elliott

Kimberly Dow · 09-27-2005, 12:38 AM

Thank you Virgil & Alexandra.

Im going to have to get my hands on that painting before I can determine what exact paints I used. I am not very organized in that way. Perhaps I will be now.

Virgil - you would wait 6 months even with Retouch? Or do you prefer not to use it?

Along the same lines....I've been told I can mix some wax in with Retouch to make a matte temporary varnish. I just received some Dorlands wax and have yet to try it yet. Anyone have comments about this practice?

Michele Rushworth · 09-27-2005, 06:31 PM

Virgil wrote:

Quote:

And don't varnish when it's cold or damp, not even retouch. The best time to varnish is in the middle of a hot, dry day, at least six months after the last brush stroke is dry to the touch. Cold and/or damp poses the risk of water getting into the varnish, and that can cause several problems.

I found a solution to this problem, one that was suggested to me by Dean Paules at the conference in D.C.

Since I live in Seattle (where weeks could go by waiting for a dry day during our rainy winters) I bought myself a space heater. I close up the studio windows and doors, heat up the room til it's pretty darn toasty, turn the heater off and apply the varnish.

Then I leave the room, closing the door behind me to keep the heat in, and wait a day or so until the varnish is completely dry. After that I go in, check that the varnish is dry, and open the windows and turn on the fan to vent all the varnish fumes.

I did this a couple of weeks ago and had no problems with clouding of the retouch varnish I applied.

Virgil Elliott · 09-28-2005, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimberly Dow

Virgil - you would wait 6 months even with Retouch? Or do you prefer not to use it?

Kim,

Ideally, I wouldn't use retouch varnish on my own work, but would wait at least six months and then apply the final varnish. If I were to use retouch varnish, it would not be before the painting had had adequate time to dry, i.e., at least two weeks.

Note that if you've used a slow-drying white, it could take a good long while for the paint to dry. I use lead-based whites, primarily those ground in linseed oil. This kind of white speeds the drying of all the paints it comes in contact with or is mixed with.

I know there is often a big rush to get a portrait finished and delivered by a deadline, and there might be a great temptation to varnish it before the paint is even dry, much less cured. I would advise against it. It would be better to deliver the portrait without varnish, and arrange to varnish it some months later. A layer of varnish over wet oil paint will interfere with the drying of the paint, by restricting the amount of oxygen that can reach it.

Virgil Elliott