40% taken by agencies

[Tarique Beg]

An eye-opener is the 40% taken by agencies!! Between the agents and framers, I wonder what's left for the artist? (recently, I found out framers also charge a colossal amount).

Administrator's Note: This was moved from another thread in a modified form, as it is actually the start of a new topic.

[Karin Wells]

40% is actually low. Many agents take 50%. Consider however, that the artist wouldn't have a commission if the rep. didn't get it for them.

The hard part for me is the stiff "second generation" fee. This is when you have done a successful portrait through a rep. and the client's relative, friend (or whatever) sees it and calls you for a new commission...Even though the rep. does nothing for this new painting, they expect the same %...

I won't sign a contract unless the rep. is willing to cut this "second generation" fee (and so far I have not found one who will). Many artists I know "cheat." They don't tell the rep. about the second portrait and silence the client with a significant discount. I won't work that way as it makes me uncomfortable...

Also, if you work with a rep., you must sign a contract to adhere to your published fees in all cases. This makes sense because a rep. obviously can't sell your work for $10,000 when you only charge $5,000.

A rep. does have a lot of expenses and does deliver the work and they should be paid well for this service. But I still think that the "second and third generation" paintings need to be open to negotiation.

The very best marketing tool I have found is Cynthia's web site, "A Stroke of Genius"!!! It is a (by comparison) low-cost 24/7 art gallery of your work available to anyone in the world with a computer who is shopping for a portrait.

[Lisa Gleim]

Tarique,

As for your sticker shock with local framers, I would strongly recommend you do your own framing. You would be amazed at the simplicity of it and the economical gain you would derive from it, not to mention save from it. If you have a tax exemption certificate/sales and use tax license for your state, you can open an account with most framing supply distributors in your area and pay the wholesale price for your frames, mat boards, glass etc. You can also find many books on the subject of framing and about how to do it if you feel a bit intimidated by the process. I have been doing my own framing for ten years now and not only have I saved money but I have also made money in doing so. I am able to offer my clients the same quality framing as my local frame shops but at a considerable discount. And trust me, they too appreciate the savings!

Lisa Gleim

[Cynthia Daniel]

Tarique,

When I managed a portrait artist, we ordered many frames from Abe Munn in New York. As a reseller of the frames, we got wholesale price and then made the profit off the markup. I think if you go to who makes the frame or a distributor, you'll get better deals. Going to a local retail shop is going to likely give you less discount because of their markup. But, if you go where the shops get their frames, you could pay less, though for less expensive frames, you might have to order a quantity. But, Munn's frames are each custom made and expensive and we were able to get wholesale price even ordering each one individually.

You can see Abe Munn and other framers on my Framers page:
http://www.portraitartist.com/resources/framers.htm

[Rochelle Brown]

I agree with Karin about the rep's value. Where I live no one will pay more than $400 for a portrait and then only rarely.

[Tarique Beg]

Lisa

Doing your own framing as a side business is a great idea. I see so many framing shops everywhere, even in expensive malls. I've come to the conclusion that framing must be a good business or else so many people wouldn't have been in it. Furthermore, the fact that framers can charge such high prices must be because there is a high demand for it (correct me if I'm wrong).

Anyway, I checked out a few framing places and found they used special framing equipment. What do you use ? Did you learn it on your own just by reading books ? and how does one get a tax exemption certificate/sales and use tax license for a state ? (sorry for all the questions).

Cynthia

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. How does one become a redistributer for frame suppliers such as Abe Munn ?

Karin

In my current profession of software development consulting, (at my level) we get paid anywhere from $65/hr to $150/hr plus. I always try to negotiate as high as possible by playing one agent against the other since I work with several agents simultaneously. Whoever, gets me the best rate wins (in a good market, that is).

Sometimes, I'll even get myself submitted at a low rate, and after the corporation decides they want me for their project, I pretend to walk away just before signing the contract with the agent. This usually puts the agency in a bind because they loose face with a big corporate client. So, they mostly cave in and give me my rate.

Typically, I get upto 80% of the billing rate. My methods may not be very straight forward, but then neither are the agency's, because I know several engineers who end up being paid, say, $35/hr while the agency charges the corporation $120/hr!! - that is for 40hrs/wk for six months to a year!!.

Essentially, all these computer staffing agencies do is get your foot in the door at a corporation, then they collect anywhere from 20% to 70% of the billing rate. I think all agencies will try to get away with as much as possible in every profession.

I wonder if you can play one gallery or rep against another in a similar manner as artists ? Of course, I haven't started art professionally yet, so I don't know. When I do start, I think I'll try to stay away from the galleries. Hopefully, I should have another profession to fall back on and perhaps even finance my own marketting when the time comes.

[Cynthia Daniel]

All I did was call up Abe Munn and told them I worked for an artist who framed his works and resold the frame to the client. When I ordered the first frame, I simply reminded them we were a reseller. That's about all there was to it.

[Lisa Gleim]

Hi Tarique!

I learned to frame about 13 years ago when I got a job at an art supply store that also had a frame shop. I have also read books on the subject that answered questions that I didn't already know. It is actually quite easy. Most art supply catalogues and stores cary books and videos on the subject as well as matt cutters, glazing guns and other small esentials.

As for the equipment. I lucked out and bought a used professional matt cutter from someone going out of business. That was shear luck. However, you can purchase one through the major art supply stores as well. There are many different levels of matt cutters and their prices reflect that. If you really begin to do a lot of framing with matts & glass, you should consider purchasing one that is of a professional grade and that would be purchased through a frame supply distributor. A good company to start with is United Manufacturers out of New York. They have everything you need to do your own framing and they ship anywhere. As for equipment for cutting and joining your frames, most if not all of the frame distributors will chop and join your frames for you. And as for glass, you can purchase a handy little glass cutter at your local hardware store. It really doesn't take much equipment to do your own framing. A drill, a matt cutter, a glazing gun and a glass cutter are really all you need.

As for your tax exempt number, you need to contact your state's tax division. You should be able to find a phone number for the Sales and Use Tax division in the government section of your phone book. This is usually the blue section. If it is not listed as such, contact your states Internal Revenue Service office and they will gladly connect you with the proper department. Once you have your sales tax number, you can purchase your art supplies tax free. That is if you are selling your art work. Unfortunately, many artists pay taxes on their artwork twice. First when purchasing the materials to create their work and then second come April 15.

I hope this long speach is of help. Please feel free to ask more questions!

Lisa

[Karin Wells]

Tarique,

It is interesting to hear how you negotiate your hourly rate but I'm not sure that this would go over so well in the Portrait Biz

For starters, I think that for every artist that is being represented, there are a hundred others standing in line for the privilege of paying 40% to get that job.

Also, a Rep. really does deserve to make a living for the work that they do to keep an artist employed. Many artists prefer to focus all their time and energy at the easel and have no interest in marketing. Quite simply, they would not have the work if the rep. did not seek it out and choose to send it their way.

Over the years many artists and reps. develop deep personal friendships based on mutual trust and respect.

If working directly with a rep. and paying a percentage holds no appeal for you, Cynthia Daniel's "Stroke of Genius" is an excellent marketing tool for a professional artist who wants to go solo and keep 100% of his fee.

For a mere $600 (or so) per year, SOG gives you a 24 hour a day, 7 days per week, online portfolio available to any potential customer (anywhere in the world) who has internet access.

Not bad, eh?

[Lon Haverly]

Lisa, I once had a catalog from United, but I lost it. I could not remember the company until you mentioned it. Can you tell me the address, or phone number where I could order a catalog?