Customers postponing dates

Marcus Lim · 03-27-2005, 09:42 PM

Hi,

I just got off the phone with a client's secretary..."My boss would like to postpone the meeting till next Monday, is that ok with you?" Naturally I'd say fine to her since I'm doing my best to clinch his deal.

But clinching his deal has never been easy, as since January we've been postponing meetings time and time again - the third time already! And the worse thing is, when we do meet it doesn't seem to be moving ahead to signing the contract.

"Let's meet my geomancer and interior designer together and see what they say..." or
"Why don't you think of the design for the portrait first, and we'll discuss it again..."

GOD!! I'm really feeling frustrated right now! He's really upsetting my schedules for other projects!!! What I'll like to know is if you guys experienced the same thing, and how do you deal with it.

And also, how do you tell the client you had enough, and "Strike three! You're out!

" in a diplomatic way? I'd really appreciate your contributions.

Terri Ficenec · 03-27-2005, 10:52 PM

Marcus, I think you move ahead with your other projects and put this guy on the back burner until you've got a signed contract! ... and you let him know that that's what you intend to do.

You are a professional and deserve/should expect to be treated as such... I think if you do meet with this fellow and still no contract, or if it gets rescheduled yet again, it'd be perfectly appropriate to let him know that you've got other priorities that you're juggling and that you will not be able to hold a place for him among those priorities until you've got a signed contract. If he's asking you to do work (the design etc.) that falls after the contract in your normal procedure, refuse to invest the time without the contract. Either he'll ante up and sign the contract, or he will decide it's not what he wants to do. If it's the latter, you're probably better off finding that out sooner than later, and probably better off without his business anyway. Just my opinion.

I've got a (potential) client right now who was originally scheduled for a photo shoot in early January, but then decided she wants an outdoor portrait and the winter here's been horendous, so we are holding off until the nicer weather of spring. (Which still looks several weeks off) In the meantime, I'm going ahead with other projects and this one will have a place in my painting schedule only once the contract is signed. The client-to-be is fully aware of that. When the weather is appropriate, we'll reschedule the photo shoot (at which time the contract will be signed)... Did I wonder if she'd changed her mind and might not go through with the portrait when she decided she wanted it outdoors rather than in and asked to be rescheduled? -- Sure. But I haven't invested anything other than a couple of emails and a phone conversation in this potential project, haven't upset anything else that I'm working on... other than to bump them forward a slot... and if it doesn't happen -- no harm, no foul.

Marcus Lim · 03-27-2005, 11:05 PM

Great tip Terri! I guess i've been too nice to people, and find it hard to drive a hard message across to him. I know consciously I don't want to lose this big break that he's providing, and that doesn't help in any way to communicate to him.

Quote:

You are a professional and deserve/should expect to be treated as such...

I guess I've much to learn how to walk and talk like a professional. But what you've said, it certainly made difference for me, and made my day.

Thanks Terri...

Michele Rushworth · 03-28-2005, 12:37 AM

Quote:

What i'll like to know is if you guys experienced the same thing, and how do you deal with it.

All the time. It's a normal thing in any business.

Terri's advice is good: Let them know (nicely, of course) that you're prepared to walk away if now isn't a good time for them. Let them know you're busy with other projects, too. (They'll think more of you knowing that you're in demand.)

Some clients who delay eventually disappear, and some eventually come through. It's sometimes impossible to know which is which while the project is in the early discussion stages.

You might want to create a reason for them to make a decision soon (an upcoming price change, a current opening in your schedule, etc.)

It's also sometimes necessary to to some up front "design work" (at least at the concept level), in order to seal the deal, depending on how important this particular commission is to you.

Kimberly Dow · 03-28-2005, 03:35 AM

My last portrait client kept wanting to re-do the photo shoots....we had a contract, but it was holding me up in a big way. When I nicely told her I needed to get going on it - she said something like "Oh, I thought you had other paintings you were working on." I then explained that I usual have several things going at once. In the end - I finally had to just email her that I'd have to postpone her indefinately if we didn't get started. I was taking a risk - since she could have just said no...but we had been at this stage for a couple months. Luckily for me - it worked. She had put me off regarding signing the contract previous to that also - I did an email to all my clients about a raise in prices and that got her to sign it days before the raise. I'm still shocked to be honest that this one got painted!

Marcus, I'd just send a very polite letter saying you'd have to move him to a later date since you are in demand and cannot wait any longer.

Mary Sparrow · 03-28-2005, 07:31 AM

I'm having a similar problem right now and it is driving me insane. I have taken the photos of 4 children and for two months these two different sets of parents have put off "sitting down with their spouse" to discuss what they wanted! It is maddening because two months have now passed by and that income, while it will come later, was being counted on for that time period, in the meantime I now have several other appointments for photo shoots. I don' t like feeling pressured and when my waiting lists grow long I get frazzled. So here I am squeezing money out of turnips while the list grows longer. (Shouldn't I be happy with a waiting list?)

I have made it clear to these people that they are about to lose there place in line and it may take longer than they originally anticipated to get their portraits the longer they wait to make a decision. Fortunately, that worked for one mother and I finally got an email from her last night telling me what she wanted. In the meantime, I spent that down time practicing on all of those Sara's, so it wasn't time lost all together, it is just putting a huge kink in my bank account at the moment.

Michele Rushworth · 03-28-2005, 11:40 AM

Scheduling can often be a headache no matter what you do.

I have three portrait clients I'm working with now who are planning major paintings. All three of them signed contracts and have given me deposits but there was a period of about three weeks where I was waiting on each of them to get back to me about something and had nothing to paint. (The other clients in my queue are set for much farther out in the year and aren't ready to get started yet.)

In one case the photos were done and approved but the size hadn't been decided on. In the second case, the photo shoot was delayed due to problems with their schedule. In the third case, we had yet to sit down to even discuss the concept for the portrait, let alone schedule the photo shoot. Making matters worse, the first two wanted their portraits done by specific deadlines this spring!

Each day that went by made the deadlines that much harder for me to achieve. Fortunately I was able to move one of the deadlines out a few months (whew!) and one of the three clients came through with what I needed to get started. I'm now painting seven days a week to get that portrait done.

In my "down time" while waiting I did some marketing, painted some small studies of the portrait for which I had the reference photos shot, and ordered a pile of new brushes and paints (since I knew once these paintings got rolling I wouldn't have much time for anything else).

Speaking of which, time to get back to the easel!

Marcus Lim · 03-29-2005, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michele Rushworth

I have three portrait clients I'm working with now who are planning major paintings. All three of them signed contracts and have given me deposits but there was a period of about three weeks where I was waiting on each of them to get back to me about something and had nothing to paint.

It's funny that you should mention this, Michele. Right after hearing Terri's and your advices, i was contemplating a way to get him to sign and pay a deposit for the portrait, when i DO see his geomancer and interior designer next week (good god, it's beginning to develop some distaste in my mouth mentioning them!)

However if i do get a deposit, it'll be quite a while before i can get work done, because he expects me to discuss with the two professionals and work something out together. Now i can foresee this becoming like another case of the Congress trying to pass a Bill, ding-dong-ing views and disagreements, when your life depends on it!

So here, i'm thinking if it's ethical to collect a deposit from him?

And Kim, i like your style...i might just try and "postpone him back INDEFINITELY" if he tries to pull that "postpone another day" stunt on me again. Us artists gotta stick our guns and put our chin up high against these "renegade customers", isn't it?

Michele Rushworth · 03-29-2005, 01:26 AM

Quote:

However if i do get a deposit, it'll be quite a while before i can get work done, because he expects me to discuss with the two professionals and work something out together. Now i can foresee this becoming like another case of the Congress trying to pass a Bill, ding-dong-ing views and disagreements, when your life depends on it!

So here, i'm thinking if it's ethical to collect a deposit from him?

Yes, ethical and necessary. It shows that you both are serious about working out a solution and getting that piece of artwork made.

Terri Ficenec · 03-29-2005, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Lim

. . . However if i do get a deposit, it'll be quite a while before i can get work done, because he expects me to discuss with the two professionals and work something out together. Now i can foresee this becoming like another case of the Congress trying to pass a Bill, ding-dong-ing views and disagreements, when your life depends on it!

So here, i'm thinking if it's ethical to collect a deposit from him?. . .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michele Rushworth

Yes, ethical and necessary. It shows that you both are serious about working out a solution and getting that piece of artwork made.

Oh, Marcus, I've got to second what Michele said on this. Also, I think you need to recognize that when you are meeting with his professionals trying to 'work something out together' you ARE 'getting work done on his portrait'. This is not how you would otherwise choose to spend your time -- it's goal directed activity -- and you should rightly be compensated for your time. Michele's point about the deposit representing a commitment on both your parts to getting this done is essential. You should know going into these discussions that this client fully intends to proceed and that you are not wasting (potentially a lot of!) your time.