Two children - 10 times the work!

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Hello everyone,

I am posting this reference photo here because I would like some help with planning this portrait. I didn't post this under reference photos because I am happy with the light. I have taken probably 200 photos of my two children and this is the best pose and lighting situation. (Enough photos so that my husband said I'm "cutting into their summer" and I've promised to start paying them!) Now the next step is to actually dress these two in something that will work. And, of course, move over my backdrop so it covers the background.

It is actually a grey backdrop, it looks more green on the monitor. The chair is green, which I don't care for, maybe I could buy some fabric is the correct color and repaint the chair fabric a better color. Or maybe it'll just stay green.

My biggest challenge here is what to put my kids in. We are a pretty casual family and my daughter is only 14 so I want to keep this casual. T(No gowns.) Technically, I think they both need long pants so I don't end up cropping this photo in the middle of a bare let.

Specifically, here are a couple of questions:

1. Would white shirts be okay? The white shirts would be close to their faces so all the light massing would be in the center of the painting.

2. Any other help with color combinations, including that chair and the backdrop would be helpful. Or even help on how to go about figuring this out . I started out taking photos of the kids in outfits I wanted to paint, but after many 'photo shoots' I decided I needed to grab them as they were and just try out different locations. I did that instead of taking 20 shots in a pose/location that didn't work and then moving onto the next one. So, now that I have my pose and location I need to put them in some kind of outfits.

I am feeling a little bit like this portrait may be too much for me to attempt, but I really would like to have a portrait of both of our children together. I'm going to give it a try anyway. Painting two people doesn't just double the challenges, it's exponentially more difficult!

Thank you in advance,

Joan

P.S. I don't have Photoshop, you can see some crude attempts at making my son's pants longer and erasing some background noise.

[Michael Georges]

Well, I thought I would try to help you with your photo. It is very dark and I thought it could use some work. I was not able to modify the parts you did yourself, but the overall tones are better here I think. I also sharpened it a touch.

If you send me your photo larger, I can do the same to it and send it back - [email protected]

There is a lot of ambiguity around the boy - how he is leaning against the wall makes him look off balance. You will have to handle that with some delicacy if you want to pull it off. The knee and draping hand on the girl are larger than they would be in life - photo distortion. I would reduce those parts about 2-3% and composite the image to reduce the problem.

I think that if this were a commission, then you might want to go for something a little less casual in dress and pose. However, since these are your kids, you can dress and pose them as you think will suit the painting and your lifestyle.

If you have the time, set them up again and try a couple more poses - you might come up with a better shot.

Hope that helps!

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Hi Michael,

Thank you for replying to my post. After I posted that pretty awful photo I wondered if anybody would respond.

I should have made it clear that this is just a 'test shot' and I like the spot where I photographed them, I finally got the shadows on their faces the way I want them. I don't plan on painting from this photo.

My next step will be to put them in some kind of clothing that is nicer than what they have on, but I don't want a 'formal' look. My son needs a shirt with a collar, for instance, and probably khaki pants. I'm not sure what to dress a 14 year old girl in though!

I'm glad you pointed out that my son's position is a little confusing. I thought he was sitting/leaning on the arm of the chair but he is so close to the wall that the wall may have been supporting him too. I know now to move the chair away from the wall so that's not confusing. I'll also either try to move farther away to take my next photos to get rid of that distortion in the knee, or reduce it as you suggested. I was on the opposite side of the room when I shot these already. Guess we need a bigger house.

So, once I get them in some nice outfits, I'll take 50 photos of them to get some good expressions and tiny variations on hands, etc.

Hmm, I'm a little concerned that you think this photo is too dark. I'll be taking the 'real' ones earlier in the day. That should help. Thank you for your offer to fix my photo, I'm hoping to get one that doesn't need fixing. (And my poor kids are hoping I'll get a good shot soon so they can stop posing!)

Joan

[Chuck Yokota]

Hi Joan,

I think that with white shirts you might be struggling with the brightness competing for attention with the faces. How about polo shirts in some desaturated compementary colors? They would be a step less casual than t-shirts, and would have less tendency to look rumpled in a casual pose. Also, you can try out color combinations by laying the clothes out on the chair, before having to make them change clothes.

[Juan Martinez]

Hi Joan

I haven't been too active on the Forum lately, so I hope you don't mind my jumping in here, sort of "unannounced". ...

First, I think your overall concept looks nice and it is well worth pursuing for your painting.

Regarding your specific questions:

1) as Chuck mentioned, a white shirt may steal the thunder from the sitters' faces, but it need not. And, as far as that goes, so can nearly any other shirt colour. The main thing to watch out for is that the sitters' faces don't end up blending in with the background. This happens all too often in portraits where, if one were to squint and look at the painting, it becomes a portrait of a suit or of a dress, because the faces have fallen in with the background. You are right in wishing to mass the lights together in the centre, though. If you can keep the whiter whites right near the heads, then I think you're OK. Remember all those Baroque portraits (think van Dyck) where people all wore a white ruff, or later in the 18 century (think Reynolds) where everyone had a white collar? Well, that sort of thing helped to "frame" the face and set the viewer's attention. Unfortunately, a white shirt is white all the way down, not just near the head, so you've got to figure a way to downplay its whiteness elsewhere. A lighter, greyer background is an option. That way, the shirt more-or-less blends in with the background in terms of value, and the flesh is then the more contrasting aspect of the central part of the painting. That is, the face is a higher chroma than the background/shirt combination, and is a bit darker, too. (As we lighten things, we tend to lose chroma, or brightness, so a slightly darker flesh can remain brighter.)

2) When you get to the final posing session, in addition to the fine points that Michael brought up, you might also take some shots of each child separately. They don't really need to be together in order for you to paint them together. In the test shot you posted, your daughter looked good and had a nice relaxed pose, so you may not need her there any longer. It might be, though, that your son will be more relaxed, or relax-able, if his sister weren't there for a few shots. I don't know why that would be, necessarily, but it might help. Sometimes, a sitter is self-conscious about being in a portrait with someone else without knowing it. Give it a try anyway.

Good luck, and, as I said, the concept looks very good and do-able.

All best.

Juan