Lousy experience

[Jimmie Arroyo]

Hope this is the right spot for it, as I did'nt find a 'whining' section in the forum. I had been looking foward for some time to using pastels from a live model for a long time and had been excited about this chance. I finally got the opportunity this past Sunday morning, there were going to be three models posing for six hours, a perfect opportunity for experience. I packed up almost all my pastels; 180 Rembrandts, 36 Unisons, and 50 Giraults, and a banana. Got there early 9:30, it started at 10am. Got a great spot, maybe ten feet away from the models. I was very anxious.

The models arrived late, then had to get dressed. No one seemed to mind, but I thought maybe they'll make up the time at the end. It was done like that in college. We started at 10:38, people were still talking and drinking their coffees and eating their bagels. The lady I'm working on, starts showing fustration that her timer had'nt gone off after 22 minutes instead of 20. So they take their first break. 20 minutes pass, and the models are starting to get back into position. This went on and I noticed at about 12:20, we had only had 1 hour's worth of sitting. So that's an hour and ten minutes of wasted time. Mostly the models, but also some of the ''artist's'' fault. I was so annoyed by this time, that I could not get into the painting and it suffered bad, one of the worst pieces I've ever done.

They went and did their pose until 12:40, took another 10 minute break, then went up there to get another pose in before the big 1pm break. I'm thinking the proper thing to do is do the full 20 minutes to compensate for their tardiness. They get up after 10 minutes for the big break. The worst part is, it seemed like no one cared. I pack up my stuff, which takes me two trips to my car. The lady who put this thing together sees me packing and says "Jimmie, you can't stay for the whole session?" Then she remembers "Did'nt you pay for the whole thing already?" I asked her into the other room and tell her how disappointed I was, the models coming late, how they took their sweet time and no one here cares. There was no way I was staying for the following three hours. She felt terrible and gave me all my money back. I told her I did'nt want the whole thing back, just what I did'nt use. I guess she figured I got nothing out of it when she noticed my picture in the garbage.

Had a headache and was pretty sore for the rest of the day. Getting my money back, I decided to take the family to see Shrek2. Great movie. With popcorn, soda, and candy, it came out to the same amount I almost wasted at the class.

I'm going to try to get people to pose early Sunday between 7-10am. That means I'll lose my 12-4am slot Saturday night-Sunday morning, but I'm hoping I can find people willing to do it. Sorry, I usually don't talk this much, but I had to vent (whine).

[Patricia Joyce]

What an unfortunate experience, Jimmie. I know, from earlier threads that you really try to pick and choose what you will spend your money on. If you don't have a cooperative model it will be extremely frustrating. I am glad they refunded your money.

I hope you have some luck finding models for your life drawing development. I can really relate to your anxiety at attending a life drawing class. I found it very unnerving the first few I went to. But the more you can go the easier it gets. I find there are always artists better than me and artists who struggle more than I do. Besides, when you have a good model you get absorbed you don't care who's around!!

How are you going to find a model? Is this for life drawing in the nude, or portrait drawing? Are you trying to form a class?. The one I attend is only $12 a two hour session. It is professionally managed with staff from the Cleve Institute of Art, as an adult education class. There are usually ten to fifteen students. The art instructor lives in the suburb where this class is held (Lakewood is about 25 miles from the Institute). Some of the students are novices, some are struggling students like me, and others are full time students from the institute. It is a great mix.

I will be interested in reading how you do with developing a way to draw from life. Good luck, Jimmie.

Patty

[Michele Rushworth]

Perhaps you can work with the woman who organized the session you attended and together set up something that is more professionally run. I bet you'd benefit the most that way, and probably all the other artists would appreciate it too.

[Kimberly Dow]

Bummer Jimmy - I feel your pain. Some people are just playing at art and it hurts those of us who are being professional.

[Jimmie Arroyo]

How are you going to find a model? Is this for life drawing in the nude, or portrait drawing? Are you trying to form a class?.

These were my plans; this way someone can give me advice on whether or not they are bad ideas based on experience.

As most of you know, I take pictures of mostly women that come into the tattoo shop. I usually take with me the drawing I'm working on, so getting someone to pose for pics is usually very easy. Sometimes they ask me. I plan to also ask if they would be interested in life modeling, I would pay them for this, $10-$15 an hour. Now they pose for an 8x10 print of the drawing. I would also only want to do this for color, and keep the drawings from pictures, or at least the majority from pictures.

I'm looking to do other things besides the portraits I'm doing now. I would like to do more figurative type work also. What I was thinking, was to do my work out of the model's home, as I'm not comfortable having a stranger in mine, and I thought it might make the model more comfortable. The lighting situation would'nt make a difference in my case, as I have no lighting setup in my house anyway. Low ceilings and no set space for my work have kept me from getting anything fancier than portable lights. I have four easels, the nice one in the attic, and three cheap ones; one in the dining room, one in the bedroom, and one in the basement. That's my studio.

I know many of the pros here, go to the client's location, so working somewhere else should'nt be a problem besides the inconvenience of draggin the equipment along. I would ask that someone else be there with them to further put them at ease. I would also take pictures so I can work on fabric and background at home, then go back and have them sit again for finishing touches.

I gave setting up a workshop some consideration, but I don't know many artists to begin with. I have two friends that I used to work with airbrushing, but altho they say it would be a great idea, I don't see them showing up or taking it seriously. And of course there are my time constraints. I have to try to get a model and a couple of people at my house Sunday mornings between 7-11am. I'm sure it's possible, just stressful.

Perhaps you can work with the woman who organized the session you attended and together set up something that is more professionally run. I bet you'd benefit the most that way, and probably all the other artists would appreciate it too.

The woman who set up the session is also a model, and she works in the same manner. I'm sure if I spoke to her and asked that it be run in a better manner, she'd oblige, but then I have to deal with the other "artists" who I really don't think care. They seem to be there because they have nothing else better to do. And that drives me nuts, not to mention that I already have a fear of crowds, which is why I feel like I'd work best one on one.

I'm going to make this work, the sooner the better. I know I'm restricting myself by not working in color and from life. I just have to try harder. Thanks for listening.

[Kimberly Dow]

The only thing I'd caution against Jimmy is trying to go to a woman's home. Even if you have another with you (woman) it still may be hard to get someone to agree to this. They'd have to live alone first of all (or have a very understanding spouse - but no kids and no parents), they'd have to have a room that can have the shades drawn of course, but with enough light.... If you feel uncomfortable having strangers in your house imagine how a woman posing nude would feel about having you in her house.

I would suggest finding a facility you can rent at a reasonable place - think of anyone you know - maybe even the tattoo shop on days it is closed? Or an art center of some kind? What about an empty shop somewhere that is for rent - you could suggest to the owner renting it hourly for a small fee on occasions?

Good luck!

[Ngaire Winwood]

I had similar problems until I bit the bullet and decided to start a drawing group. I have also arranged life drawing for our region with 15 turning up for the first 3 hour session.

I asked around for a cheap room and finally found one in a function centre, maybe you have something similar that is not used regularly. It also happened to be a Bed/Breakfast place which had a room they are renovating. Funds haven't come in to renovate and it will be a year or so, it is just sitting there, not being used. I offered a small fee $5 head and the model charges $20/hour nude. $15 clothed.(You could even try hotels, schools or colleges)

Also each week, 2 or 3 of us get together and draw each other(clothed). It is good at the moment I have just come back tonight from the 3rd one, but for a sustained drawing/painting we might use each other as models, each take a turn a week to sit. As long as there is two people, you can take turns. For Nude Life Drawing you might find a way to share costs with another artist as the size of the room will be challenging with more than 2 or 3.

[Jimmie Arroyo]

Originally Posted by Kimberly Dow

The only thing I'd caution against Jimmy is trying to go to a woman's home. Even if you have another with you (woman) it still may be hard to get someone to agree to this. They'd have to live alone first of all (or have a very understanding spouse - but no kids and no parents), they'd have to have a room that can have the shades drawn of course, but with enough light.... If you feel uncomfortable having strangers in your house imagine how a woman posing nude would feel about having you in her house.

I would suggest finding a facility you can rent at a reasonable place - think of anyone you know - maybe even the tattoo shop on days it is closed? Or an art center of some kind? What about an empty shop somewhere that is for rent - you could suggest to the owner renting it hourly for a small fee on occasions?

Good luck!

You know the crazy thing is that I would agree with the uncomfortability factor, but when I used to airbrush, I never had a problem with taking the pics in the model's home. I think there's a vanity thing that overshadows the fear of being around a stranger. I always insisted that someone be with them, but they always insisted that the person stay out of the room. The only reason I would be uncomfortable with someone in my house, is because I have a problem with people period. If I went to the dinner in Boston, my hands would be clammy, I'd say several stupid things and would be dying to leave.

Renting anything in Bergen County, New Jersey is nearly impossible. Rent out here is ridiculous. I'm gonna check the boards at Pearl Paint and see if something's available. My boss is cool about letting me take pics in the shop because he knows it's quick, but he does'nt like the idea of people being there before or after hours. He would most likely be ok with it if he personally knew the model, but he does'nt even like the idea of us tattooing too late after closing. The art center that I had this session does'nt rent out space, already tried. I'm just gonna try asking someone very enthusiastic about posing to do live sittings and see what happens.

[Jimmie Arroyo]

Originally Posted by Ngaire Winwood

I had similar problems until I bit the bullet and decided to start a drawing group. I have also arranged life drawing for our region with 15 turning up for the first 3 hour session.

I asked around for a cheap room and finally found one in a function centre, maybe you have something similar that is not used regularly. It also happened to be a Bed/Breakfast place which had a room they are renovating. Funds haven't come in to renovate and it will be a year or so, it is just sitting there, not being used. I offered a small fee $5 head and the model charges $20/hour nude. $15 clothed.(You could even try hotels, schools or colleges)

Also each week, 2 or 3 of us get together and draw each other(clothed). It is good at the moment I have just come back tonight from the 3rd one, but for a sustained drawing/painting we might use each other as models, each take a turn a week to sit. As long as there is two people, you can take turns. For Nude Life Drawing you might find a way to share costs with another artist as the size of the room will be challenging with more than 2 or 3.

Hi, you must have just gotten in there while I was typing. Thanks for the tips. I already have a place to draw Saturday mornings, the class is 3 hours long, $15 a pop, but I can only stay for an hour and a half before I have to leave to catch the last few minutes of my daughter's tennis sessions and work. I'm looking to do finished work from life, so I'd rather stay away from the group thing so I have total control over it. I'm confused.