Megan by the window

Joan Breckwoldt · 05-22-2004, 03:45 PM

I have been taking photos of my kids inside our house in natural light by different windows. I've been also reading Mike's thread about lighting. This photo was really a 'test' photo as I was trying out different windows and different distances away from each window. If I get much further away from the window which is facing south, my photos always are too dark.

My daughter's hair is a mess and I know there is a composition problem with cutting off her arm (!) but I'm primarily interested in her face. I see highlights and many ranges of value.

I want to do a portrait of my daughter leaning against a wall and introduce some type in the background. Of course, I'm keeping open minded and this could change, but that is my 'vision' right now.

Thank you in advance for any comments,

Joan

Julie Deane · 05-22-2004, 05:08 PM

Hi Joan,

I like the colors in Megan's face. Nice tones, and she has such a pleasant expression.

What does strike me is that her face appears to not have enough light on it. If you have a digital camera, can you experiment with moving her a bit forward into the window's light? Then you can compare and see which looks better.

Joan Breckwoldt · 05-22-2004, 05:17 PM

Thank you Julie for your reply,

I took this photo with a digital camera so it'll be easy to take more. Good idea. I'm wondering though if I move her closer to the window then the light might wash out the lit side of her face? I guess there is only one way to find out. Maybe this configuration won't work at all, I wanted her leaning against a wall but this way her face is turned AWAY from the light. I leaned her against that wall behind her (perpendicular to the wall with the window) but it was too far away from the window and turned out too dark.

Thank you for your nice comments about the colors in her face, I achieved those by complete accident! Seems I get better skin tone color with my digital than I do with my still camera.

Joan

John Crowther · 05-22-2004, 09:23 PM

If you have Photoshop, I'd suggest playing with the brightness and contrast. You'll be astonished at how much you can change it to get the look you may want. You also have the option of using the color balance, if you want to take down the redness. And there's the saturation option should you wish to lessen the intensity. When you brighten it, you might burn out the white of the shirt somewhat, which need not be a problem as you always have the original to check it against. To avoid this you can use the "lasso" to isolate the parts of the photo you want to change. All of this can be done in a matter of minutes, seconds even. -- John C.

Joan Breckwoldt · 05-22-2004, 09:49 PM

John, Thank you for your reply:

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Crowther

All of this can be done in a matter of minutes, seconds even. -- John C.

Seconds, maybe for you! I am not that handy will all the technical stuff, I usually have to get one of my kids to help me.

I didn't even think about Photoshop. I don't have Photoshop but I do have another program that will manipulate photos. (Actually I'm not that bad with the technical stuff.) I will try and see what I can do with that. I have thought about buying Photoshop since I've seen a lot of the applications applied to various photos on this forum. It may be time for me to look seriously at Photoshop.

Thank you for your great idea

Joan

Linda Brandon · 05-23-2004, 12:38 PM

Joan, this looks awfully good but I'll bet you could make it better. Turn her face to the window so that she's in profile, facing to our right. Have her face turn slowly toward you and stop when the inside corners of both eyes (the inner canthus) are hit by the light. See if you can get the classic 3/4 light to 1/4 shadow in the classic 3/4 face pose. Having both eyes lit up will help you a great deal in painting.

However, you may not be able to do this and keep a good shadow pattern with your full side lighting from the window. Maybe you can experiment with making the light come from a higher source: block off the bottom half of the window with a dark blanket, perhaps?

Small problems in this photo that will haunt you later include the mysterious lack of a nostril on our left side.

She is a beautiful girl and this will be a wonderful painting.

Sharon Knettell · 05-23-2004, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joan Breckwoldt

Thank you Julie for your reply,

I took this photo with a digital camera so it'll be easy to take more. Good idea. I'm wondering though if I move her closer to the window then the light might wash out the lit side of her face? I guess there is only one way to find out. Maybe this configuration won't work at all, I wanted her leaning against a wall but this way her face is turned AWAY from the light. I leaned her against that wall behind her (perpendicular to the wall with the window) but it was too far away from the window and turned out too dark.

Thank you for your nice comments about the colors in her face, I achieved those by complete accident! Seems I get better skin tone color with my digital than I do with my still camera.

Joan

I think moving her closer to the window would help a lot. Just use some kind of reflector to balance out the light on the darker side. A piece of white cardboard or foamcore would work just fine. I use them even when I am painting from life to soften the shadows. Kodak makes a handy dandy inexpensive "Light Ratio Metering Calculator". It contains a light ratio calculator and light ratio gray cards. It is simple to use and will help with metering and balancing your available light sources. One thing to keep in mind, is that it would be good to find a spot where you can paint her as well as photograph her. Natural light gives invaluable skintone information.

I think Linda Brandon suggestions are well worth trying. I am concerned with the focal length of the lens you are using. It looks like a 50mm when you should be using an 85 or a 105. The shot looks too close. I longer focal length is generally better for portraits.

Joan Breckwoldt · 05-23-2004, 04:11 PM

Dear Linda and Sharon,

Thank you both for all your help! I turned on the computer and found Linda's post so called my daughter for more photos, then by the time I got back to the computer there was the post from you Sharon! So I called my daughter again.

I love the new pose, though I still have the problem of no far nostril. Linda, that is a perfect way to direct someone to a pose, I like those instructions and my daughter is old enough to follow my instructions. I see what you mean about having the light come from above, in the ones I just took the light is 'lighting her up' almost from a lower level. I did have her pose on her knees by the window (quicker than draping off the bottom of the window) but for some reason that whole series of photos by that same window turned out too dark today.

Sharon, I plan to paint this by using the reference photo and my daughter from life. I learned what a big difference there is between life and photos on my last portrait so it was a great idea to take pictures of her in my 'studio', which is more of a painting space. They turned out too dark though. I had my husband hold up my big piece of foamcore for a reflection board but they were still all way too dark. I posed her next to a south facing window at 2:30 p.m. on a sunny day. I finally got the best photo taking her downstairs and opening the south facing french doors to get enough light. This time I stood back and used the zoom so I wouldn't get so much distortion in her face.

I am really overwhelmed with the help I am getting on this project. You have both absolutely made my day! Thank you both so much,

Joan

P.S. I don't think this is the best I can do but I'm getting closer with help. I think it's too late in the day because there doesn't seem to be enough light. Also, the light is coming from the right instead of the left, like I am more using to seeing. I wonder if this matters, next time I'll try having the light come from the upper left so the painting will 'read' from left to right.

Joan Breckwoldt · 05-23-2004, 05:13 PM

Hmm, after rereading the suggestions above, Linda, your post talked about 1/4 shadow and 3/4 light. But, it looks like I've got the opposite of that! I've got 3/4 of her face in shadow with this pose

. Did I miss something? I will recruit her again tomorrow for more photos. Lucky for me (not her) she has finals so she'll be home early.

Joan

Linda Brandon · 05-23-2004, 07:32 PM

Joan, I was trying to get for you a natural light, light/shadow composition equivalent to what Chris Saper achieved in her post "Brown Shawl", linked here.
She used artificial light in her setup; you may not have a strong enough light source from your window for this, at least at the time of the day that you took the photo. Maybe a different time of the day? Or a different room of the house? Maybe you should move the camera a bit as well as having your model move? How about cutting down all the bushes in front of your house?

Where is Mike McCarty when you need him?

The goal here is not necessarily to find a "formula", stock portrait pose which you will always use; rather, it's to come up with one very successful example of light management which you will therefore 1. succeed at painting a great "form" portrait, 2. feel justifiably self-confident about it, and 3. move on from there.