Two boys in charcoal

Debra Jones · 01-30-2002, 10:48 PM

This is a commision via my Mother, so it is already perfect... ha. I have been having a devil of a time with children's teeth. I MUST outline them somehow, as they are such little pearls, but I have nearly erased through the paper with them.

Perhaps I may pick your collective brains and find out how you all handle the problem. Thank you all for looking.

Peggy Baumgaertner · 01-31-2002, 01:30 AM

I'll give it a stab. You want to create the illusion of teeth, not draw teeth. When you outline around the entire tooth, it appears that there is a space between the teeth. What you want to do is draw the shape of the "not teeth" (i.e., the gum line, the inside of the mouth, tongue, bottom lip, etc.,) and what is left is the teeth. You can further delineate these "teeth" by noting shadow, the curve of the muzzle, and hitting a (slight) highlight, but you don't "draw teeth".

The "not teeth" concept will come as no surprise to my students and demo watchers. I also paint a "not nose" and a "not mouth".

Otherwise, you've done a terrific job! (I don't even see much of a problem with the teeth....)

Peggy

Mike McCarty · 01-31-2002, 12:00 PM

About teeth, I think that if someone had told us early on that teeth are the easiest, its the left side of the nose thats so difficult, we may now be discussing the left side of the boys' nose. My own experience is that by the time I reach the teeth, I have built up so much anxiety that I no longer see what is before me. What is before me is usually much less than my mind has preceived. I think drawing the negative space is the best advise and "can you make that kid shut his mouth" will serve you well.

The boy on the right looks just fine to me (a mere suggestion of teeth). My guess is that your concern is more about the boy on the left. Try dealing with the negative space and try to create less instead of more.

I do like what you have created overall.

Mark Gil · 02-04-2002, 10:26 PM

I think you did a great job with the boys. I see no problem with their teeth. It may have been a struggle, but it looks fine.

I myself, love to do portraits in pencils. Black and white has much more drama than color, in my
opinion.

Keep up the good work.

Mark Gil

Debra Jones · 02-04-2002, 10:37 PM

This is a great place to rub elbows. I wonder how many of you here are doing pencil, pastel or charcoal portraits, or if you began your career here.

It is odd, but the time I have been spending on what used to be such a basic form, seems to be taking me twice to three times the work and total hours as either oil or pastel. It is very labor intensive. I would love comments on this dilemma.

Thanks,

Lon Haverly · 02-13-2002, 07:30 AM

When I draw the teeth, I have a very systematic approach. I draw the center gum line, and then draw the left and right gum lines with just a little check mark, not drawing all the way down the teeth. Then, I draw the outline of the teeth. This way, they are suggested, rather than individually drawn like "little pearls." You can shade a little toward the corners of the mouth, and the shadow of the lips over the top of the teeth. With teeth, less drawing is better. Just try to be a little more carefree in suggesting them.

Lon Haverly · 02-13-2002, 07:47 AM

I work in public doing charcoal, pencil and pastel. They are 10 minute drawings in pencil and charcoal, and 20 minutes in pastel. Why so fast? Well, the average person can't pose any longer than that. I don't really hurry, that is just how long it takes. If I take longer, the fdwings are just overworked. My philosophy - draw it once and draw it right. Each line is final. I draw in pencil using a sand block to give my pencil a chiseled point.

I love drawing. Some days I will draw 30 or 40 portraits. Charcoal was my first medium in public. It is so immediate. I did nothing but charcoals for ten years, every day, all day. Then I figured out pastels.

Pencil was my very first medium as a child in art sccool. Ironically, it was the last drawing medium to master. My pencil drawings are simple, unsmudged, sanded-tip drawings and take about five to ten minutes.

I hope to learn about portrait painting in oil from these masters in this forum. Maybe soon I will have something to post.

Lon Haverly · 02-13-2002, 03:09 PM

Of course, you are working on gray background. THis does complicate matters, especially when it comes to teeth. You have to use the white. See, I never work on gray. Drawing teeth on gray paper is tough, because of the white element. Perhaps the teeth would have been much easier to "suggest" if you did not have to add white. It is hard to know how much white to add, since teeth are white. That, I suspect, was the puzzle in your mind here.

Margaret Elvin · 02-13-2002, 04:40 PM

It's been interesting reading this thread about teeth. I always dread including them in a painting or drawing, but it usually turns out to not be so hard after all. There's not much room for error, though I suppose that's true for all aspects of portraiture. When I looked at your drawing I was captivated by the boys' impish smiles, natural expressions and how well you depicted them. I liked the way you placed them on the page as well. I didn't even notice the teeth until I read your accompanying post, but I think they look great. After reading Ron's last post I thought yes, it would be hard to do white teeth on a dark gray background. But you did a fine job.

Margaret