James and Lily

Mary Sparrow · 04-21-2003, 08:28 AM

I was sent this photo via email last night. The mother loves this picture and wants to know if I could use it to do a portrait 30x40 (she has a frame she wants to use.) She doesn't care if it is full length or cropped in, just to take the house out. Is this reference suitable and would you crop it based on the size? Thanks so much.

Mary Sparrow · 04-21-2003, 08:32 AM

I don't know why the photo didn't post!

Mary Sparrow · 04-21-2003, 08:35 AM

that was sent to me was HUGE, when I resized it it to post looks distorted. Is there a way for this to be avoided?

Mary Sparrow · 04-21-2003, 09:12 AM

.

Cynthia Daniel · 04-25-2003, 11:27 PM

Quote:

The image that was sent to me was HUGE, when I resized it it to post looks distorted. Is there a way for this to be avoided?

There's no way to say the cause without knowing the software you were using and the exact steps you did, in detail and what compression level you chose for the file.

Linda Brandon · 04-28-2003, 10:57 AM

Hi Mary,

First of all, congratulations on getting this portrait query. Good for you!

I'm not sure why you're not getting posts on this. I think it's because people are trying to decide whether you'll have enough information to make a portrait based on the clarity of this reference. It's hard to tell from my screen. For example, can you see both sides of the bridge of the nose for each child? I do a lot of backlit, outdoor portraits. You will need to show subtle color changes in the shadow side of the face in order to indicate plane changes. You're not going to get the kind of modeling you'd get in an indoor photo shoot.

That being said, I don't especially like this pose. I have really strong opinions about posing siblings in a multiple portrait. There should be some indication of the relationship between the two (I think it was Peggy B. that first said on this Forum that when you paint multiples you're painting a relationship). I would like to see some visual overlap of these children so that they form a unit. Compositionally, this would be a light (possibly triangular) mass against a dark or strongly colored background. If it's part of the relationship, I think you ought to include some actual touching - holding hands, touching a shoulder, etc. Often an older child is protective of a younger one but not always. Remember that you're being hired for your taste as much as for your technique.

Small "problems" such as feet chopped off by long grass will become big problems when you start to paint them, especially on a canvas this size. I think you should tell the mother that you would like to photograph her children in a similar pose, and then take your time setting this up EXACTLY as you'd like it to be. In the long run, this will make it much easier for you to do a wonderful job. The good news is that these are two beautiful children and this could be a spectacular painting.

Best regards,
Linda

Steven Sweeney · 04-29-2003, 04:52 AM

Mary,

My own reticence to comment on the photo as a reference was grounded in the very concern to which Linda first alluded, namely, that I cannot find the kind of information there that would permit me to render a good painting of these two kids. I didn't want to come out and insist that nothing can be made of this, but I know that I couldn

Linda Nelson · 04-29-2003, 10:32 AM

Bad New and Good News -

Boy, You have a tough choice here I think. I would agree with the others that this is just not going to make a great painting as it stands. The images of the kids themselves are fine, but the police-line-up pose next to each other is just not working.

Being one who likes a challenge, and I do think as I said the "raw" images are good, I'd like to suggest some solutions :

1.) Convince her to let you paint them separately. Separate each kid into a painting - Each pose on it's own is fine.

2.) Put a basket of flowers or a something at the base of the boys' left hand - This will infer an interaction or scene - as if the girl is picking flowers and the boy is collecting them, and they've stopped for a second to look at you. This in my opinion is doable, but you have to take care to do it right.

3.) Combine ideas #1 and #2 - They then can hang next to each other, but have a context that makes them work as a diptych. One advantage is that both children can keep their own painting when they get older.

Hope this is of help!

Linda

Mary Sparrow · 04-29-2003, 12:41 PM

First, thank you all for your thoughtful responses. This one is tricky for many reasons besides the ones you all pointed out. For one, they are not local, and with a 12wk old baby, I am not in a position to travel 4 hours away. Second, how do I put this nicely, the father is rather difficult. He took these pictures and think they are FABULOUS. This is the second batch that they sent and he got a bit miffed when I told him the first just wouldn't do. I guess I need to muster up the courage to tell them we need to try again...with a different photographer. That should go over well.

Steven Sweeney · 04-29-2003, 06:45 PM

Those shutterbug dads with all the FABULOUS photos of their cute kids can be the real portrait "challenge". We had one of them come through our lives in a whirlwind a few years ago, and he left photo albums and shoe boxes full of snapshots all over the place, an archivist's nightmare. (FABULOUSLY cute kids, though.)

Part of the challenge is that Dad imbues the photos with a lot of background information and emotion to which the objective viewer won't be privy, but Dad will expect the finished painting to capture all that.

And there's the hazard. Given your brief observation about the father, I rather suspect that you could produce this photo in oil with absolute fidelity and that he'll think it falls short -- because he doesn't realize how the photo falls short, not necessarily as a photo (though it does), but as reference material for a fine art portrait. Our eye will usually "forgive", or at least supply, missing information in a photo, but every decision in the painting will be regarded as deliberate and executed as intended.

They've further hamstrung you by requiring that your work fit the frame they have, so "cropping" solutions will be a bit more difficult to implement.

If you decide under the circumstances to have a go at this and see what can be made of it, you might take some time to browse through the SOG galleries to try to spot similar presentations and see what distinguishes them. (I'm thinking largely in terms of orchestrating contrasts, and in creatively handling "white" clothing.) I'm also put in mind of Lon Haverly's Oil of Mariah from Forum days of yore.

Cheers