Of donkeys and lost boys

[Elizabeth Schott]

[I]I must apologize. This got really long, but my thoughts just kept going, and since it is the new year, I don

[Jeff Fuchs]

It's a double edged sword, Elizabeth. I've never posted on wetcanvas.com because it seems that every post gets a flood of compliments and those animated applauding smileys. I've always recoiled at insincere compliments, and appreciate an authoritative critique (with a pat on the back when I've earned it ).

So I searched the net for a serious discussion group, and I think I've found the best there is. While your comments about this group might seem a bit gushing to some, I feel exactly the same way.

There's a price that comes with running with the big dogs, and I learned that quickly, when two of my first three drawings got no critques. The one that got comments, however, gave me information that seemed to apply to my work in general, so I guess it evens out. I quickly stopped posting anything drawn from life, though, since those apparently aren't up to speed, and now post drawings done from photos. My work from photos is better because the model sits still for as long as I need, and is already two dimensional. These posts have gotten me some good feedback that I am applying to all my work, including the life work (which I'll keep to myself until it improves).

I think that new members here have to prove two things: First, we have to show that we're capable of professional work. Second, if our work isn't up to professional standards (like mine), we have to show that we're working hard to improve. There are always new members who post a few times and never return. The regulars may feel that their time is wasted on the new guys who aren't going to follow through. So in a few months or a year, when I'm still here, and my work is better, I can expect regular input.

But I stand by what I said in the other thread. When a new member (or anyone) asks for a critique, then reacts negatively after getting it, people become less likely to post critiques for people they don't know, and the group circles the wagons against new members. I'm now refraining from posting new drawings unless they're serious attempts. I posted one yesterday that is a commission (pro bono ), so I want it to be right. Otherwise, I keep my day-to-day drawings to myself. I have re-read Cynthia's posting guidelines, and I'm trying to follow them.

[Tom Edgerton]

I had an art professor WAY back that gave me the greatest gift anyone could have--objectivity about my work. He was known for excessively rough critiques, and the students either loved him or hated him; a few individuals left the program after suffering particulary withering criticism. But if you toughed it out, you realized that it was always about the work and not personal, and that he was generous, accessible and very supportive of us as students and fellow humans.

It's a slippery stance to cultivate within oneself, the position of being self-confident and self-affirming and yet relentlessly objective and always somewhat dissatisfied with one's work. But I believe that growth as an artist resides there. It never gets easier, you always find that upon reaching a horizon, the next view is merely that of another distant horizon. But really, if it were easy, there'd be no museums, and no reason to strive.

"Nothing is more apt to deceive us more readily than our own judgment of our work. We derive more benefit from having our faults pointed out by our enemies than from hearing the opinions of friends." --Leonardo Da Vinci

Somebody remind me of this the next time I'm moping about tepid reception to a mediocre work of mine.

Also thanks, Beth, for your generous affirmation.

Love to all.

[Michele Rushworth]

The last couple of times I posted works to be critiqued on this site, several people said they should have been posted in the "unveilings" section instead of the "critique" section. I knew that was not true. I believe we all need critiques. It would seem strange to me to show a painting and tell viewers beforehand that I was only interested in praise!

I hope I always feel that I have a lot of growing to do, and I will never stop striving to be better.

It's sometimes up to us to consider the source of the critiques we receive and whether or not to implement the suggestions. However, I've also found that those who may not be able to paint very well often have the most insightful things to say about my work. My seven and eight year old daughters will be the first ones to say something like, "His nose is too big!" and they'll be right.

The people who have done me the greatest disservice in the past have been professionals, friends and family who have praised work that I know now to have been positively awful!

[Chris Saper]

During the second workshop I ever took with Harley Brown, he walked up behind me, took his cane and SMACKED my easel. "WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!" The cane was loud, the voice was louder.

I said, "What?" And he pointed to the shape of the cast shadow I had placed on the philtrum under my subject's nose. I was SO excited! I knew if he was fussing about the little shapes, that my big shapes were right. Several other students were completely horrified. But I grinned until my face hurt.

Thank heavens there is so much to learn in this work. I would be downright depressed if I believed this was the best I would ever be able to do.

Although this wonderful quote was directed toward musicians, it applies to us all, and to Jeff's and Tom's points in particular:

Have the humility to practice, yet the audacity to perform.

Thank you Beth, and to all.

[Steven Sweeney]

One of my final projects one year was a still-life with which I was quite pleased and about ready to sign and take off the easel, when my instructor came by for a final look. His entire critique consisted of:

[Leslie Ficcaglia]

Before I began to frequent the SOG forum I spent a lot of time on WetCanvas' portraiture board. I really enjoyed offering critiques, where requested, to people who seemed to be at a level where they could benefit from suggestions and implement them. Sometimes it seemed as if the right hints could have the potential of helping a person rise to the next stage of proficiency and that was very satisfying.

When I was wrestling with a problem I also tried to take advantage of others' expertise and sometimes got great advice; at other times what was offered didn't seem germane or particularly helpful.

Knowing what kinds of input inspire me, I try to tailor my own suggestions accordingly. I don't respond unless I can be constructive and I try to keep in mind the first tenet of medicine: Primo non nocere - First of all, do no harm.

I'm always amazed at the patience and kindness displayed by people like Karin Wells, Chris Saper, Steven Sweeney, William Whitaker and Marvin Mattelson. They are true saints in their wilingness to offer encouragement and a hand up to an aspiring fellow artist. May their brushes long be limber and may the gods smile upon them!

[Jean Kelly]

Way back when I was in art school, (before God) my art professor took me aside after my first studio class. He told me that he wasn't going to be able to teach me how to draw, I already knew how. He said that my criteria would be different than others in the class. I would only get the A that had always come so easily if he could "feel" what I created.

He scared me half to death because I didn't have a clue as to what he was talking about. His critiques were scathing at times, and on many occasions I was devastated. But I learned something more valuable than just art from him. He became a good friend and father figure when I needed it most. When I had to leave school I gave him my best work, a portrait of him.

An informed critique is one of the best teaching tools in art training. And an informed critique from an accomplished artist is a precious gift. I say keep your mouth shut, listen, and do the work!

[Michael Fournier]

I have a meeting to attend this morning so I will be brief.

I read this thread (well, most of it) and scanned through the previous thread that motivated it. And my thoughts are that yes, this site does welcome comment and contribution from all levels of artists. But I think that Sharon and those professionals that others may feel are being harsh may actually be offering the best service to those truly contemplating art as a profession. (If you do not get feedback on a post be patient.)

If you intend to be a professional artist you'd better get over your aversion to strong opinions and criticism of your work. In response to a post in the previous thread (I can't remember who posted it at the moment) RESULTS are all that matters. We have all heard someone say things like, "My dad worked hard all his life and never had a thing to show for it." Or that he worked very hard but never seemed to get ahead. Yes, hard work is essential to success but it is not synonymous with success. Hard work that is unfocused or without preparation will be unproductive.

Many feel that success is a result of getting a break or opportunity. Sure, opportunities given or created are important if anyone is to see your work, but opportunity will only make the unprepared look foolish. You may have heard the old saying, "Work smarter, not harder", but if you are to succeed, it is not one or the other, but both smart and hard work that will lead to skill. Then when opportunity presents itself, you will shine instead of looking the fool.

I have a long way to go in my own goal of becoming the artist I strive to be (or the person I strive to be, for that matter). But my advice is to set real goals, and then be honest with yourself as to your effort and the level of achievement you have made towards those goals. You alone know when what you have created is what you intended. It may not be what someone else would have strived for, but you have reached your goal. Now set a new one and move on.

If you look among the artists of the SOG Hall of Fame, you will see very different styles, each beautifully executed. So accept the criticism of others with a smile, for it will always be there. No matter how good you get, your work will not please everyone. But also be honest with yourself, do not let your own defense mechanisms keep you from seeing where you need improvement. When you have attained a goal, set a new one right away, for the end of growth is the beginning of failure.

Well, I must really go now, but I hope I got out what I intended here and that others gain from the advice.

[Jeff Fuchs]

Michael,

You may have gotten the impression that I was complaining about my college instructor. Far from it. Go back and re-read my post. I absolutely agree that results are all that matter. When your work is hanging on a wall, it has to stand on its own. No one knows, or cares, how hard you worked. It's ALL about results.

This has become an awfully active thread, considering everyone seems to have the same opinion. We all agree on the value of a no-nonsense critique.

The "donkeys and lost boys" in question were not complaining about critiques, but expressing a desire for more tough love. I only regret that so much energy has gone into this thread, taking time away from critiques for those who could benefit from them.