Liking your clients?

Marta Prime · 08-01-2002, 05:14 PM

Tom, I'm curious as to why you think liking your subjects too much would skew the work? I would think that would be an advantage! Imagine trying to make a good painting of someone you DIDN'T like or respect! That would be the untimate test to me.

I can't believe it's August already!

Administrator's Note: This topic was split off from "Teeth Showing" at http://forum.portraitartist.com/show...&threadid=1076

Tom Edgerton · 08-02-2002, 08:57 AM

Marta, thanks so much for the compliment! We may be opening up a separate thread here, but here goes.

I phrased that post partly that way to spark discussion. I really don't apologize for liking my clients--it's healthy. Maybe I'm just wistful for the really quiet, evocative introspection I see in other's portraits and would like to explore more of it in mine. One of my favorite child portraits ever is a wonderful, quiet, head-and-shoulders that Dawn Whitelaw placed in the PSOA finals year before last. I wonder if I could bring a little more "discerning watchfulness" to my sessions and get this, but I'm pretty outgoing and I know it influences what I get back. And if I think TOO much while shooting my reference, I get in my own way and miss everything. It's a Zen thing.

Also, too, I do often give my clients a choice between an outward and an introspective image, and often press for the latter, but I'm enough of a businessperson not to get in a huff if they don't choose what I want them to. And, I do a good bit of posthumous work, and the available reference in these instances is usually a smiling file photograph. So some of it is out of my control. Cynthia's point about having what you WANT to paint in your portfolio is well taken also--people will pick what you show 'em.

I'm going to bow out of this thread now and see where it goes. Maybe check back in later.

Love to everyone.

Cynthia Daniel · 08-02-2002, 09:18 AM

Tom,

I post the following at the risk of starting even another topic and having to split off again, when I managed Robert Schoeller, I was aware of the introspective vs. outward look in the portrait. I watched this as we did advertising and the greater popularity of portraits that were introspective was hard to ignore.

Jim Riley · 08-02-2002, 11:17 AM

I don't know about portrait painters in general, but have often heard that it has been difficult for many artist, myself included, to paint those close to them. With all the challenges of doing a good portrait trying to include your own emotions and personal history is placing a big burden on the artist. I guess it could be twofold: a key ingredient for a special painting or a large overwhelming complication.

Rick Hamilton · 08-02-2002, 11:34 AM

This is an interesting discussion. I have painted family members and friends that I have known for years and find it very different from painting someone I know little about.

I recently did a commision for a friend's family of two children, two boys, perched in a tree in a very pastural setting. Although the quality of the photo was horrible, it was being done as a gift to my client's grandparents.

When I completed the work and presented it to my client she burst out in tears. Of course my first reaction was that she hated it. But then she told me that the younger boy in the picture had died a year ago in a gun accident.

I don't know that I would have been as objective and clear-minded if I had known that prior to doing the work.

Michael Georges · 08-02-2002, 11:42 AM

I don't think good portraiture can be done in an environment of Clinical Disinterest in our subjects.

Indeed we have been told that our goal is to capture more than just a reproduction of the person's image. IMO, that means you really need to try to get to know your subjects just a little and try to know somethings about them that give you a personal interest in the painting you are doing. You don't need to become life-long friends, but a little effort goes a long way in establishing a relationship that you can base a portrait on.

Rochelle Brown · 08-02-2002, 02:38 PM

Maybe, as Tom said, as a professional he can provide an image that the client and their family prefer. Tom, do have your people watch movies or listen to music when you photograph them? If and what they will sit through may be a determining factor in the atmosphere and composition.

Mike McCarty · 08-02-2002, 04:05 PM

I think that I have a slightly different take on this subject. I have always thought in terms of the image rather than the personality. Sometimes I like people and sometimes I don't. But whether I do or I don't, I can love the image.

If the person that I am portraying is known to me I think it's possible that my knowlege may mold, pose, or portray that person in a manner that reflects that knowlege. More often than not, after a brief interview and photo session, I must interpret from the imagery.

Personally, I don't think I have the ability to gleen the core of a person's personality and somehow capture this understanding on canvas. It may work out that way and the client and their family may get this feeling. But, if this is the case, I think it was more a successful manipulation of the imagery than how I felt about the subject.

People may say that their feelings for the individual will surely find thier way into the work. Proving this is like having someone prove that I don't have a belly ache. I don't think that it's true that all the successful, sensitive portrayals of people were done because the subjects were warm and personable people.

Of course, if you [feel] differently and it helps you get the work done I think that's wonderful. I really don't think this will be a popular view, and in fact, I think I'm fixing to get hammered.

Marta Prime · 08-02-2002, 07:58 PM

Well, you've pretty much covered family, and people you like, but have not really addressed the issue of doing a portrait of someone you didn't "get along" with. Maybe you haven't run into that, or maybe you wouldn't accept a commission of someone who you didn't feel comfortable with.

Let me first say that the majority of people I meet are really good at heart and kindred spirits. No problem. But then again, there are those few that seem to think calling you "honey", or "sweetie", in a business environment, or somehow making it seem that being an artist is not a respectable occupation - like all artists are from 60's hippie communes or something, can get my dander up. I'm afraid if I even accepted the commission, I would have to paint a Snidley Whiplash mustache on the culprit, with relish!

Maybe this is just something some women artists experience.

Mike McCarty · 08-02-2002, 08:46 PM

I think the point I was trying to make was that I don't think the fact that I like or dislike someone is relevant to the job at hand. I seem to think in terms of images and not personalities. I have done a lot of business over the years (in various fields) with people that I would not choose to be personally involved with.