So when is a student ready to be a teacher?

[Rob Sullivan]

I'm not embarrassed to say that I love teaching art. Were my career as a painter to suddenly (please) go off the charts, I would make time to teach. It's an integral part of the process. Continuing Ed or BFA, I enjoy them equally, though not always for the same reasons.

A forum, however, is different. If I have a class, and a student shows me a piece that makes me cringe in horror, and then asks me for a critique of that piece, I must grit my teeth and go in as honestly and as deftly as possible. It takes a while to get this combination just right. Of course, it is my job to do this. But, if I open a forum thread and see something truly horrific, I will choose not to even try, for 2 reasons:

1- Communicating on the web is so very different than reality that it is very easy for things to be taken the wrong way, out of context, etc. If a work is especially bad, the odds are stacked that things will go awry. 2 - Resultant of this, it is best not to try, and therefore makes my life and the poster's life easier. For if the poster is ignored , they will get the message much more clearly than if any wordsmith were to comment with sage advice. And that message would be, "You need much more experience with basic stuff before posting, but I think you already know that."

[Michele Rushworth]

For if the poster is ignored , they will get the message much more clearly than if any wordsmith were to comment with sage advice. And that message would be, "You need much more experience with basic stuff before posting, but I think you already know that."

Of course, a lack of response might simply mean people were busy, or some other new work got stacked up on top of it on the Forum index and it just got buried.

I've found many great paintings I somehow managed to overlook on the Forum that I finally stumbled on and commented about months later. I'm sure there are some out there that I have never seen, even though I'm on this site on average once a day or more.

[Elizabeth Schott]

Steven,

I didn't have "time" to write this post, but my day already feels larger for having done so. That's the way it works.

This is a big day for you, because you haven't misunderstood me on either of your post - HA! I got the yin and the yang out of you today.

I was talking about my own apprehension, but figured I couldn't be the only one that felt that way, so I wanted to de-personalize it so others might say how they feel too!

I love how you write by-the-way! Sorry to make you do so much of it today!

I can't wait to come back and read these tonight!

[Julie Deane]

I love these thoughtful responses, Beth. Good topic!

I've felt the same way you do, and I've also popped off and said something that I've later regretted. Now I try to take my time, if I have the time, and give a careful response. Unfortunately, I frequently have little time to give, so add something briefly, to the point, but I always try to give a positive to start out with. Human nature being the way it is, plus our fragile artist's ego, we need to hear what we did right before being able to hear what is needed to improve.

If a person is willing to put their work up for critique, we have to assume that they want truthful feedback, not just praise. I learn more from a critique that tells me where I fell short than on any number of "attagirls".

Not giving a critique because of feeling inadequate may rob the seeking artist of some bit of information he or she could have used to truly grow.

[Steven Sweeney]

Jeff's observation is well-taken, about the four artists in fisticuffs over who's "right." I was watching one of Gregg Kreutz' DVDs last night and when he mentioned the [Name deleted to avoid fisticuffs] medium he uses, I had to smile to myself and say, ha!, I'm glad [Name deleted to avoid lawsuits] isn't watching this. Same with the binder in your oil paints, the number and size of brushes, the rodent the bristles were plucked from, this pigment 100% good, that one 100% bad, the music you're playing in the background, and the horse you rode in on.

I've come to think more than a little of all of it has to do with one of two conditions: (1) not nearly enough fiber in the diet, or (2) way too much.

By the same token, I know that there are posted images that I've tried to get going in the right direction with a few suggestions, knowing full well that there are others out there, usually with much more experience than I have, whose suggestion might be, "Throw it away, you should never have started this," or "I've already seen this kind of thing so many times, I don't know why you're doing another one." Now I might try to head someone off at the pass if they're showing us an unsuitable photo reference, but once somebody has a piece under way, I feel my subjective preferences are quite beside the point. They want to finish the painting and have it turn out as well as possible. That's not so much to ask -- unless you ask all four of those [Unnamed] artists.

I had a plein air instructor in Australia once, who wouldn't let somebody just give up on a piece that wasn't working. "We aren't here to start over," she'd say. "We're here to fix what's on the canvas."

That's a good enough reason to drop by and say, "Try softening the edges over there," or "Think about how these shapes interrelate." Or to paraphrase Gregg Kreutz, "You're getting sucked into the middle-tone vortex."

I'm going to hang onto that last one. I think there's a critique out there just waiting for it, and I figure I'm the guy.

[Mark Youd]

.

[Steven Sweeney]

Swear on a stack of unfinished sudoku puzzles, this is my last post in this thread, but I have to say this:

Don't get sucked into a different kind of vortex, the one where you post a critique -- with the expectation of getting feedback on your critique! (Feel familiar to anyone?) Just don't. A critique is an opinion, perhaps a considered one or perhaps just the consequence of indigestion, but it's just an opinion. Put it out there, and let loose of it. It doesn't matter if the artist whose work is being reviewed agrees with you or appreciates the insight. It doesn't matter if another Forum member comes along and disagrees with you, suggesting a different procedure or solution (that is, having the audacity to express his or her own opinion).

As the inimitable Bill Murray reminded us in that inestimable summer-camp send-up, "Meatballs," --

It Just Doesn't Matter!

Focus on the work.

Now, a cease and desist order has just been faxed to my cubicle . . .

[Mark Youd]

.

[Jeff Fuchs]

Originally Posted by Mark Youd

Here's a thought.

Someone posting work for critique should first write their own critique of the painting.

My thoughts exactly. That's why I haven't been posting for critiques lately. I'm struggling to learn to paint, and I can readily see what I'm doing wrong. Second opinions wouldn't be helpful to me at this point, since my problem is a lack of experience with the medium. After I make a few hundred attempts, I'll be ready for opinions.

At this point, my work would produce those cringes you mentioned.

When I see the cringe pieces, I usually assume that the artist lacks experience, and I shy away from critiques, because what they really need is to keep drawing and painting. There's not much point lecturing someone on color temperature when they can't draw a head.

[Elizabeth Schott]

Swear on a stack of unfinished sudoku puzzles

I didn't know you could get these any other way!

I think I might spend some more time just reading through recent critiques and see what people are saying.