I'm Having a Breakdown - Sage, Advice Please

[Kimber Scott]

Thanks, Chris. I do tend to get ahead of myself, don't I? I'd love to come visit with you. I'll call you soon.

I'm a student at ASU. I graduate next spring. Hopefully, I can keep my wits about me until then! There are some great teachers there and they treat me very well. They just don't know what I want to know, (if they do, they won't tell me), and it causes a bit of a disconnect at times. I get frustrated and decide I'm going to have to find the answers myself, but my time is taken up with their agenda! I have to remember, I am paying them for their agenda. That's what school is all about. (duh) I can either go along, or not. I've gone along so long now, as big an internal struggle as it's been, I might as well keep it up until the end. What's it going to hurt? I'll get a degree.

I know I must sound like a loonie tune. I get wound up pretty tight, sometimes. I'm like the girl who turns into a blueberry in "Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory." I want everything, NOW! I'll get over it. Luckily, I haven't floated away... yet.

John, I like what you said, "We get good at what we do." Thanks!

[Chris Saper]

When will you complete your degree/

[Tom Edgerton]

Kimber--

What are your post-graduate goals? Do you need this degree to do what you want to do after school?

[Kimber Scott]

Chris - Thanks so much for talking with me last night. You are a kind soul.

Tom - My goal when I graduate is to paint. I had at one time entertained the thought of being a teacher, perhaps at the community college, or university level. I've put that on the back burner as it seems simply a diversion and I can't imagine the thought of grad school at this point! Teaching was not my goal when I signed up. I was hoping to learn to paint. Instead, I've been prodded into broadening my horizons. Good, if I were 18, didn't have four kids, two grandkids, strong political opinions, hadn't of spent nine years in the Army, worked in nursing homes and jails, thought a lot about life and death and actually lived through it, weighed religion or no, or if I cared to paint about world hunger and American's tendency to eat junk food. I really don't care. I care about light and color and composition and I want to know how to lay on paint in a way that stirs the soul, not simply shocks it. So, right now, I feel I'm locked in a rubber room. The answers to all my desires are just outside the door and the only importance the degree holds for me is the fact I've put a lot of work into getting it. I graduate next year.

I will say this, the torture ebbs and flows. I have met a lot of really nice people at school. I enjoy the studio time with my friends and the practice of drawing and painting is always a good thing. Like a teacher I had back in the community college (who actually taught me something) used to say, "You can always learn more, you can never learn less!" I really enjoy my art history and literature classes. I know I will not regret having done this. My frustration comes mainly from my own ineptitude. One day, I will know what I want to know and then... I will want to know more!

[Tom Edgerton]

Kimber--

I think the problem is that you have conflicting goals. For whatever reason, you feel you need to graduate from a program with a state university degree. That's fine, but it probably will not ever provide you with the type of art experience and daily teaching that you want to further your artistic goals. So you have to decide which--the degree or the learning--you want to make your priority.

I don't mean to sound sanctimonious. I know that life is a series of very complicated choices. But my perspective on my own path, which mirrors yours, is this: I wish I had known what I needed when I was twenty.

I went through a state university art program from '70-'74, and it wasn't worth a nickel. I received next to no valuable teaching input or worthwhile art instruction of any kind, except for one life drawing class. If I had known at the time that what I was searching for was indeed available--but in the context of private ateliers, specialized art schools with a realist tradition such as the Art Students League or PAFA, and other such art-only programs--I would have gone for that. But I was a small-town Southern kid with no one around to point the way for me, and no knowledge of traditional art instruction and where to find it.

From my perspective now, I've come to a few conclusions:

1) To do what you describe, it is not necessary to have a university art degree. In a lot of related commercial art and graphic design fields, it isn't necessary either. I've been on the hiring end of things several times, and in such situations, I relied entirely on a person's job history and book, and never once asked or looked to see where they went to school. The work speaks for itself.

2) If you want to teach, you can teach. You don't need a university degree to do it, unless you want to teach in a public situation. But why would you? Your students will be taking art for a lot of reasons beside any real interest in it (as required electives, etc.) and you'll be trying to teach to a captive audience. I've done it, and being a crusader for better art instruction in public schools will eventually grind you down to a nub. Privately, I have a waiting list for students who really want to know what I know, and no one has ever asked me where I went to school in this case either. No art teacher I know of in town who teaches privately gets asked this; they attract students locally through word of mouth and reputation. Teaching privately is very gratifying.

If for some reason it's important for you to have a university degree--that it will satisfy something inside you that wants it--I completely understand and commend you for going for it. It takes a lot of grit. I don't minimize the time you've spent already toward that aim, God knows. But you are spending a ton of time and money to do so. If the low quality of what you are being exposed to is driving you bonkers and/or not meeting your needs, your time and money might be better spent in a situation that more closely reinforces your artistic goals, whether it results in some kind of "credential" or not.

I've lived through a number of artistic incarnations, both commercial and personal, and one conclusion I've come to here in middle age is that it really does matter how you spend every hour of your day, and life is too short to spend it in a way you can't stand.

With highest regards and admiration--TE

[Michele Rushworth]

Very well-put insights, Tom. I wish there was someone around to tell me all this stuff when I was studying "art" in college in the '70's too!

[Kimber Scott]

Tom,

I can't agree more with anything you've said than I do right now. I think this is where I'm at, though. You've given me a light bulb moment.

Originally Posted by Tom Edgerton

If for some reason it's important for you to have a university degree--that it will satisfy something inside you that wants it--

I quit high school, and got a GED, when I was sixteen years old in order to marry a man ten years older than myself. At the time, I had been going to high school half a day and to the college the other half a day to study painting and design. I quit all that. We divorced two kids and three years later. I've been trying to recover myself ever since. I'm 44 years old now and am remarried to a man who is making tremendous sacrifices for me to go to school. I think even he knows, somewhere in my subconscious mind I do need this degree in order to be who I thought I was before I so carelessly allowed myself to be interrupted.

Ironically, had I finished school and gone to college in 1978, I probably would have been kicking and screaming about the program much as I am now and found it just as useless - artistically speaking. But, I got on this train and I'd like to ride it to the last station. I can see it now. It's right there on the horizon. I need to finish - I've never finished anything. So, I guess I'll stop griping about it.

Thank you for helping me to see this. In the meantime, I'm spending every spare moment on here, reading and experimenting with what's been said. Maybe, I'll learn to paint in spite of my "painting" classes!

[Tom Edgerton]

Kimber--

I thought that might be the case, in regard to your desire to finish. "Just wanting" the degree in itself is a perfectly legitimate reason for completing it. In the meantime, you might relieve some of your frustration with bad teaching by taking some really high-quality workshops out there with painters you admire. I've made some dramatic leaps in a very short time by hooking up with the right teachers at the right time.

Also, I know that my story is not yours, so feel free to ignore anything I say as not applicable.

Good luck!--TE

[Kimber Scott]

Tom, I hope to be able to attend some really good workshops. I'm lucky to live close to Scottsdale Artists School. Once I graduate, I plan to go there.

In the meantime, I'm not sure if I've sprung a spring on my first day of spring break. I was so unhappy with the painting that prompted me to start this post in the first place I decided I should use it as a laboratory. I've been wanting so much to try Scott Bartner's painting technique in which he uses different whites for his underpainting - here. Being as my painting was already painted - I had to modify the process it a bit. I went over everything with orange ochre and put in the darks with Gamblin's asphaltum. Now, I have an orange painting. Not knowing what I'm doing, I hope I'm not headed for disaster! But, how can it be worse? Doing this will cut into my "production," though. Remember, my teacher says, "More paintings. More paintings!" I doubt painting the same one twice will count. Oh well... I'll slap something on a canvas for her. Learning how to paint is for me.

The reason I tell this story, is I was on the phone with my mother today when the conversation came around to my painting. I told her I was trying something on it I'd read about on the Internet. She says, "Why do you have to get all this stuff off the Internet? How come your teacher doesn't show you any of these things?"

What can I say? Thank goodness for the Internet and SOG!

Anyway, if the painting shows any signs of promise, I will post my progress and ask for help in the WIP.

[John Reidy]

Kimber, First of all I congratulate you on striving for your goal. Nothing can be obtained until we set our goals.

Your tenacity is your salvation, don't give up and, as a student, pester your teachers until you understand what they can teach you. As teachers it is their reersponsibility to teach you and it is your responsibility to let them know when you don't understand.

I use the term teachers loosely. I agree wholeheartedly with Tom's views on a university's track record regarding useful information in the arts. I, too, was in a position to hire graphic artists and it was their work history and their book that were the primary points. I do, however, look upon a degree in any field as a big accomplishment and shows an ability to follow through.

I am compelled to add one more thought for you. You have demonstrated your work ethics and they are at the top of the chart. This is one of the most important factors an artist needs to succeed. The second most important factor in my opinion, is tenacity. No one ever achieves anything by giving up. Craftmanship is next and that is learnable. Then comes talent and luck which we control minimumly.

So you see, you already have at least the 3 most important ingrediates. This puts you on a level playing field with all successful people.

Hang in there, Kimber and keep us posted. We are all here rooting for you.