Boy in question

[Patt Legg]

Thanks again Grethe, especially for your vote that "this painting will be a success". I promise I am giving it my utmost to do just that. When I first wrote in the Creative forum, I was so very discouraged.

As stated prior, after the umber, I always go into the dead color, in a grayish , greenish layers. So I am posting it here once again to show it. I think better but still a problem with teh mouth particularly. Any other comments are useful and will be considered.

Patt

[Alexandra Tyng]

Patt,

This is looking much, much better. I hope you're feeling encouraged, as you should be.

As you mentioned, there are some problems with his mouth. The upper lip is too curvy. If you put the reference photo and the painting side-by-side and move your eyes rapidly back and forth between the two, you will see the difference. You've also pinched in the lower lip a bit near the corners of the mouth. The nostrils appear crooked in relation to each other. The ears should not narrow as they go up into the hair.

Also, watch the values. Already there are problems that will stay with you throughout if you do not tackle them now and keep watching for them to reappear. The eyelid creases are much too dark and hard. The neck is too dark and the shadow doesn't match the shadow in the photo, which means it is not consistent with the lighting in the photo. Thus it looks dirty. The ears pop out because they are too light. They should be the same value as the sides of the face. It looks as though you've given an exaggerated plumpness to the lips by adding too much shine/contrast. when someone is smiling, their lips stretch and thin out, so the plump appearance is not appropriate and may be adding to the problem you are having with the mouth.

These are just some things to keep in mind. I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.

[Thomasin Dewhurst]

Dear Pat

This is a very nice beginning. It is soft and warm and cheerful. You have a very nice sense of the slight plumpness in the boy's face, and it's a very nice likeness.

With the mouth, I think that the bottom lip works well. You have a nice sense of it stretching over the bottom teeth and the edges are softened in places so that the bottom lip looks part of the skin of the face.

The curves on the underside of the top lip, though, are a little too exaggerated - if you compare them to the photo. They need to be straightened out a bit. And there is some space around the teeth where both lips join at the edges (where there are the gaps between the teeth at the sides of the mouth). It is indicated by a darkness. I wouldn't paint each tooth and the gaps between in detail at the edge, though, but just suggest the space by softening the edges (i.e no sharp lines or edges). And also by bringing the tone of the white of the teeth at the side of the mouth down to a darker colour too would help suggest that space.

Also the lips look a little too wide. They are, perhaps, not too wide, but the sharpness of the edges where the lips join make a kind of arrow effect, which makes your eyes move outwards too much: thus the feeling of the lips being too wide.

[Patt Legg]

A great thanks to everyone. You are exactly correct. It is funny after I posted it,I could see the teeth gaps, the nostril uneven, the harshness in the neck and all. Alex, the ears are light because I just have not worked on them but thanks, I realize that the value needs to change. The lips too are indeed too plump.

Grethe, again I seem to trust the old eye and it certainly does not work all the time. That too is why I chose to post here. I really needed (as you all can clearly see) a new insight and fresh eyes to see all of the above. As I had stated in the Creativity section, I had just about given up and was quite depressed about this and his sisters painting as well. Yes, there is one more and no, I am afraid to post it here. I will just start it over.

Thanks to all of you here, I have more zest now to tackle them. When your creativity goes out the door and the every day functions of life seem to be too much, it just gets very difficult as I am sure you all have experienced.

Garth, thanks too for your Photoshop info. I found that animation tool is here on mine. I will need to play with it awhile and see how to use it. One more question on this. I see that I can grid the photos too . I need to figure out how to make both (reference and painting) the exact size and the proportions of the squares on the grid the same too. This would certainly be of much help at times like this. I also wish one could print them with the grid but I do not think that you can keep the grid on them. I share this PC with hubby so I cannot leave it always here .

The week-end will not see much painting with grandson playing ball, etc.so I will post again when I feel I have corrected some of the suggested items.

God Bless
Patt

[Grethe Angen]

Dear Patt,
I think part of your problem is that you accepted to work from such bad reference. Now if it can make you feel any better, I do that too. I am not a professional but a lot of people come and ask me to draw their kids or something from bad photos. I have for the time being 3 such commissions. However I have promised myself never again to accept this kind of photos., in fact I would rather work from life., it is easier.!
Wish you the best result ever on your commission. And in the future you might want to resist to accept these kind of requests too. Promise?

[Enzie Shahmiri]

Dear Pat,

Hang in there, you are on the right track by following the wonderful suggestions given. I used to grid and this has helped me to look strictly at the puzzle shapes that make up the whole. After I was shown how to use the proportional divider, I found that it is a faster and easier way to get the correct placement.
If you search you should be able to find one under $100 dollars. Here is one link

http://www.cgedwards.com/Weems/weems01.html
I now print the desired image in black and white, so I can see the value relationships, then I do a rough sketch, pick one reference point and start measuring. Since the former grid would get painted over, this tool allows you to double check yourself at any stage of the painting. The monitor is now used to zoom in to see details and for color reference.

[Patt Legg]

Thanks so much Enzie and Grethe, this Forum has been a life saver for me and so many others. I have to add that I have had better response this time than ever before here on the Forum and for that I am so grateful.

I will take all into consideration when I proceed. At the moment I have suffered set back with an injured shoulder ( muscle or or tissue damage) , nothing severe but have to take it real easy. Standing or sitting is painful. So I shall return to my painting soon I am sure.

Grethe, I would like to promise you that but I know me. I sometimes think that I can just do anything. I want so much to be so good that I can study and convert any problem areas in a photo. I guess I had better reconsider, huh?

Enzie, I think those would help, not that I know how to use them but common sense tells me how to figure it out. What is the difference in the dividers you show here and the other ones ( $18.99) on the site you sent me? It says Ultralight Divider / Compass.

Thanks again and I shall return

Patt

[Enzie Shahmiri]

Pat, I wish you a fast recovery.!

I don't know the differences between the calibers. The one I suggest is the one that was recommended to me and I love using it. Over the years I have learned to invest in good quality supplies and it is of utmost importance that your measurements don't shift as you begin to work.

With this caliber you take one end and measure lets say the height of the models head. Then you take the other end and adjust the settings until it corresponds with the size that you want the head to be on the canvas. Since I am awful at math, I just keep adjusting both ends until I have it right, but for those not mathematicaly challenged there is a probably a formula. Once you get the right size figured out you tighten the screw and voila all your measurements will correspond.

[Sharon Knettell]

Patt,

I posted this on another thread on how to get a likeness. This may come as a surprise to you but I think you should get a blowup to the size you want to paint and trace it. Put a piece of transparent cellophane on the photo and copy the color. You will learn a lot about form and turn this painting out in a jig.

Many portrait artists trace and project, not all, but even some of the good ones. I was at a dinner with one well known one and he told me did. His paintings were quite accomplished. Many years ago when I was first starting I did this too. This is NOT a good way to start a portrait or figurative career, knowing what I know today, I would not do it that way. There were no ateliers around when I started so I took any path I could.

Most people just want a likeness. Just get it done. Then I would suggest you brush up on your drawing and painting skills from life. Do Bargues, whatever. most good portrait artists worth their salt can paint the same subject from life, but choose to take shortcuts. Projectors and tracing machines have been around for centuries.

[Patt Legg]

Thanks Enzie, Sharon and Julie -I appreciate all advice.

Sharon, it didn't come as a surprise to me about the tracing you see --as that is exactly what I did. I blew up the photo, traced it onto the canvas. That is what you are seeing. Obviously you still see a drawing problem. I think personally the drawing was correct. The loss comes when I started the value study on canvas. You know yourself, the slightest slip of the brush and wa-la, that eye is different than the other or the lips are too fat or curvy. I agree I need more practice drawing. It''s beginning to feel like I indeed began my portrait career too soon as I have sold portraits for the past 7 years at least. This is the first time that I have had one to torture me so.

Thanks again, still dealing with un-usable left arm and yes I am right handed but the slightest twitch of the neck or movement of the left arm sends excruciating pain, so---still no progress on the painting.

Patt