Lovely Alizarin, what are you using for a replacement?

[Richard Bingham]

Cue words in paint labelling that indicate the pigment is a convenience mix, or otherwise adulterated are: "Hue" "Extra" and apparently "Lake" as well.

The insatiably curious among us will have to master organic chemistry in order to navigate the list of synthetic pigments . Perhaps ASTM has "upgraded" PR-83 from anthraquinone to add the "dihydroxy" prefixes? I dunno what that means to the designation which has been common since 1870, other than the "anthra" indicates that coal-tar (anthracite) is still the raw material. Claiming light-fastness of "I" indicates a change for the better.

Tom, as painting mediums entail different oils, resins and solvents, mixing paints mulled in walnut oil with those mulled in linseed is not a problem. W&N uses safflower/linseed blended oil in some of their colors. Oils of different specific gravities will ultimately separate in fluid state, this may not happen when the blend is mulled into paint, but why compromise linseed with an inferior oil?

David, Madder Root never was the raw material in Alizarine colors. At one time, "Madder Lake" meant something "real", as the colorant (dye) extracted from madder root was used to make a "lake", i.e., dye an inert solid which could be mulled into paint. There were other processes, but Rose Madder was always considered a fugitive color.

[David Carroll]

My tube of W&N Artists' oil say's Anthranquinone PR 117, Vehicle: Linseed oil. Not sure what vintage but it is the old label. I compared it with OH 's ACLE with only white (MH Flake #2) added, they were very close in hue and in tinting power and they are both quite stiff out of the tube. This as with everything with me, was very unscientific.

I wonder which oil the Maimeri was ground in? Jerry's lists the Puro line as being made with either safflower or poppy.

Peace,

[David Clemons]

Originally Posted by David Carroll

...I wonder which oil the Maimeri was ground in? Jerry's lists the Puro line as being made with either safflower or poppy.

That's what they say on their website too. I don't see an "alizarin," but what looks closest to me is Quinacridone (Crimson or Rose Lake,) no PR 83. There's a Antraquinone Orange Lake.

Schmincke Mussini has a PR 83, but listed as "Antrachinone" in their German PDF chart.

http://www.maimeri.it/FineArts/colorprod.asp?mnu=0101#
http://www.schmincke.de/data/content/uk/uk_index.htm

FYI, I found this site a while back that gives some concise history about different pigments.

[Garth Herrick]

It's an exceptionally well made handmade Alizarin and is the only brand I've experienced that actually matches the color effects of Rose Madder Genuine, an historic and very beautiful pigment. It is considered to be reasonably lightfast, and more stable and pure than any other brand over the past century. Here is the web link for Vasari Alizarin Crimson .

I have most all the alizarin replacements too, and none of them really replaces the Vasari original.

Garth

[Garth Herrick]

Hi Sharon,

Here are two pictures of my tube which will answer most questions about the Vasari product. "Highest quality purified, refined linseed oil" is the vehicle, and a lightfastness rating of "III Fair" is stated on the back of the tube. I think I was told by Steven Salek, who makes the paint, that the pigment (PR83), is madder derived, in this case. This is why it looks just like rose madder genuine. He told me some more things about how this pigment is more stable and better processed, but I have forgotten the details. It may be better to inquire at Vasari directly.

EDIT: don't necessarily trust the color here! It looks off to me on my monitor. It should look as a much deeper cool wine color.

Garth

[Richard Bingham]

Originally Posted by Garth Herrick

. . . I was told by Steven Salek, who makes the paint, that the pigment (PR83), is madder derived, in this case. . .

Chemically, PR 83 is derived from anthracene, a coal-tar derivative. Possibly he meant that their choice of material in this instance "derives" from satisfying their idea of a "match" for genuine madder?

Most colorsts' offerings are "signature" and this is more true of small "boutique" makers. Vasari makes excellent paint IMO.