Riley - Page 2

Marvin Mattelson · 07-16-2002, 11:17 PM

I agree that the photos are beautiful. Unfortunately, to my way of thinking they aren't good photo reference for a fully resolved painting. The ambiguous nature of the dress lost in the surrounding bed sheets, in my estimation, will not translate well as a painting if you try to recreate the scene.

The folds of drapery should reveal, to a certain degree, the structure of the body and not confuse it. I just don't think this is happening here. I feel the background is also overwhelming the subtlety of the little girl's face. However, if you have a lemon, make lemonade. If I was to do a painting from this photo I would lose the background into a soft vignette and get rid of the feet, which seem floating and detached from the body. I would focus on the face and let the rest of the painting be soft.

I took the liberty of playing with your photo (what I've done is far from perfect) to get across the general idea. Sorry if I offend you by altering it but I think it offers better possibilities as a painting!

Michele Rushworth · 07-17-2002, 12:10 AM

Lovely!

Mary Sparrow · 07-17-2002, 08:26 AM

You have all given me so much to think about!

I agree with Giselle about the adjustments to the dress, and MARVIN! Wow, that is beautiful! I LOVE losing the couch. My one concern with this is the mother is "feet" crazy. I know she would like to loose the couch too, but I don't know about the feet. I will show her these and see what she thinks.

Thank you all SO much for your input, I'm getting excited about trying this.

Denise Hall · 07-17-2002, 10:46 PM

Hi Mary,

I'm with Marvin -- off with the feet -- they are distracting to the beautiful face/upper body.

Save the feet for a standing portrait maybe??

Mary Sparrow · 07-18-2002, 08:41 AM

I have discussed much of your thoughts about this portrait with Riley's mother and these are her thoughts.

1) She is crazy about this picture and the idea of Riley lying down.

2) She really does NOT like the sofa and would like it to fade out or not be noticed at all and also likes the feel of lots of whites, the way Marvin's example worked.

3) This is her 3rd portrait, the other 2 are 23x36 and she wants this one to be the same size. So you would almost have to include the feet to fill the canvas.(AND she loves young feet)

So, knowing the dimensions have to be 24x36 and what the mother's preferences are, do you still talk her out of feet? and then what do you do with all of the odd space? Also how do you treat the sofa?

Thanks so much, I'm getting ready to get started so I need to try to resolve this soon!

Mari DeRuntz · 07-18-2002, 09:41 AM

I would do several 4" x 6" thumbnail sketches, not elaborately detailed, to explore the questions you're asking. I like Marvin's approach, and think you could get that to work in the size format you're looking at. Do some with and without the feet. If you keep the feet, they work to stop the eye from sliding off the canvas, and redirect the viewer back into the pictoral space. You could knock their value down slightly so they don't compete, or you could cool off the temperature of the flesh to help them recede.

Mari DeRuntz · 07-18-2002, 09:44 AM

In the beginning of this thread, you mentioned you were taking pictures of Riley's sister. How is that portrait progressing?

Marvin Mattelson · 07-18-2002, 10:06 AM

There is a fine line, between being an artist versus being a pair of hands, that we all must negotiate. For me personally, if a client wants me to do something that I feel won't work, I will do whatever I can to convince them of the error of their vision. After all the painting has your name on it and is a reflection of you. After all, there is no place to write on the painting that the feet idea wasn't yours. I feel we as artists have an obligation to create works worthy of our signatures. That said, she is the boss and it is your decision whether to give in to her for the sake of the money.

If she wants the painting to be a specific size you need to plan your painting and photo shoot around it. Also you could do the painting and give her the option of buying it. Sometimes clients need to see the painting since they can't pre-visualize the way the artist can. The reality of holding a painting in her hands will hopefully diminish what she sees in her mind

Mary Sparrow · 07-18-2002, 11:00 AM

Well, I called Sally and said why don't we reshoot this and see what we come up with, she said great, then screamed and dropped the phone.

About 15 minutes later I got a phone call, Riley was apprarently tired of her curls! She had found a pair of scissors and whacked away! Poor Sally, I am going to play with this and see what happens, thank you everyone for your input.

Mary

Peter J. Fasi · 07-18-2002, 11:38 AM

What do you think of this?

1. Tone down bright areas in the photo - the lower portion of dress, area just below right elbow, area near foot - to keep focus on the face

2. Bring out the hair on the right side of face

3. Uncover the left arm as in the second photo.

4. Remove all extraneous detail from the painting, while still showing the feet.

My computer graphics tools are limited (ironic, considering I earn my living as a computer geek) so the retouching is a bit crude. One of these days, I'm going to invest in Photoshop.