Debra Jones - pricing and markets

[Chris Saper]

Admin note; Debra's unveiling moved into business related questions , so I have copied the last post of her thread here in order to hopefully generate more responses to her questions.

Debra Jones
Approved Member
Featured in Pastel Journal

Joined: Jan 2002
Arizona
Posts: 213 This is a debate I have been having with myself, and here is the logic:

I work small. I don't know many painters that do. I can do these teeny guys in 3 to 5 hours. (It is an attention span sort of thing!) They grow in price by size and subject so the minute I start getting larger pieces my 16x20's, same style are still only $800. My speed is about the same, I just use bigger brushes. AND I have resigned myself to my style. I just slow way down when you add background. I like heads, big or small, and the pacing is great. I am finally getting a steady income (well at least for Mother's Day and Christmas so far) that give me hope of having a realistic $2000- $5000 a month if I keep spreading the word.

The income is going up exponentially and fewer and fewer people are passing on the impulse of buying. IF they can bring me a photo from their wallet and I can get the picture done to show them the next day, I have the cash in hand.

My day job is manicuring and my guidelines were always, when I got too busy to do the clients I had, raise my prices so the time spent and income reversed. I would love to raise my prices by the end of the year, but price is only as good as reputation. HOW you find your clients?

I was rejected by Portraits, Inc. last year and have only got one gallery. My word of mouth, charity, and demos are the main means of generating business. It is my preference, desire and sanity to paint 20 to 40 hours a week, so whether I have commissions or not, I am out in the public, letting my work be seen. Just plugging along on work ethic.

Monetary reversals (less and less day job and a sudden eviction from my 13 year home when my landlord died) slowed the momentum way down on the plans I had.

Raising my prices at this point to me seems like yelling in a vacuum. There is nobody to find me so who will hear?

As pet portraits are not shown here, I price them exactly the same. To me there is no difference in difficulty, I pretty much can do anything with eyeballs, I did two 8x10 pastel pets for a woman who is a manager in a manufacturing plant. Two of her friends contacted me within a week, another for two dogs and one for the small oil above. I was plenty happy with $900 this week, still did my day job, still was able to do demos four times and work on other commissions as I went.

It is also great, as I have not got a permanent home right now. I am working out of my suitcase and my computer. I can literally take a digital photo of their snapshot and deliver a painting, wet in a day! When I get a studio and overhead I think a price increase will be a necessity, but earning that business to set up in, is what I am working on now.

Is there a thread to lead me to agents? When I was sending stuff to the Faces of the Fallen, that is what she wrote me back, to get an agent! But who are these guys?
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[Chris Saper]

Hi Debra,

You can find the information on various portrait brokers by scrolling down to the bottom of any Forum page and clicking on "Resource and Biz Center".

When you talk to the brokers, ask about the price ranges of the artists they represent. For the most part, I think they will want artists who have a record of sales in the thousands, rather than the hundreds- but contact them, to be sure.

There is good reason to raise your prices every year, even if just a tiny amount. It gives you a reason to do a client/prospect mailing, and it gives the recipients a reason to act.

Glad to hear about your recent success!

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Hi Debra,

First of all, your portraits are fresh and beautiful! Second of all, I'm worn out just reading about your week! Whew! You have A LOT of energy.

I agree wholeheartedly with the previous posts about you raising your prices. Here is my example: I participated in a 'show' at a friend's home last fall, I sold little oil paintings of fruit and flowers for $350 (for the 8x10's) and $500 (for the 11x14's). They were framed. But YOU are painting somebody's child or pet, which is about 100 times more valuable to a client than a few lemons from the local grocery store, which is, by the way, why I aspire to painting portraits. I'm not saying you should raise your prices 100 fold but certainly they should be doulbe what you are getting, at the minimum. In my opinion.

I've had some experience delivering finished advertising and design products to clients. I had a few that wanted things on a 'rush' schedule and I always charged them 50% more. I'm just afraid that if you get yourself into delivering something the very next day, you'll stress yourself out. It would stress me out anyway. I'm just afraid you may have some emergency or personal thing that you need to take care of and there you are, with a portrait promised the very next day. You could always offer the next day service but at a premium. Just a thought.

I think if you keep offering your small fresh portraits, even at twice the price, they will still sell like 'hot cakes'. The clients will find you. And . . . . . just had another thought. Think about how much an 8x10 professional photograph costs! Here in Houston the sitting fee alone is $150-$200, then another $200-$250 for the actual photograph. I'll bet in most cities you can't even get a professional photo done for $200, unless you count Sears. No wonder you're selling those portraits like hot cakes. Have I convinced you yet?

Good luck,

Joan

[Mary Reilly]

Wow, a one day turn around is pretty impressive. I agree with Joan, though, that promising a portrait in one day could present a problem at some point. I think people would be just as pleased if you said it would be ready within a week. Then you could deliver it 3 three days later, and they would still be impressed.

I also agree that you could increase your prices without losing business. My personal thought is that people prices should be higher then pets even if you feel the degree of difficulty is the same. You could always leave your pet prices as they are for now and just raise you people prices. Then consider reviewing all your prices every 6 months and increase them a little at a time.

Mary

[Jeremiah White]

I was considering doing something similar to help transfer myself over into full time portraiture. I was debating the costs and such and if I even wanted to offer small sketches in oils. I've been seriously considering adding a less expensive alternative for people who just can't afford a $1,000 painting but are still interested none the less.

If you can knock out a painting in one day or two and still get at least $200, that's a pretty good and fair return to start out with.

My other concern was whether or not it would take away sales from my larger works. I hope that if I get more sales from smaller pieces that it just means that they were potential large works that I couldn't get a commission for but instead was able to pick up a commission for a smaller piece. That's what I hope of course.

Seeing the success that you've had with these lately, it's encouraged me to go ahead and go forth with my own. Sometimes it takes seeing somebody else dive into the pool before you feel confident enough to swim as well.

Congratulations on what you've accomplished thus far.

[Michele Rushworth]

I think an artist needs to decide what end of the market they are going to aim at and pretty much concentrate on that one area. I imagine it would be all but impossible for an artist to try and get some high end work, but also sell low end work for a greatly reduced price. The high end clients will be turned off by the low quality/low price stuff. They want to feel that you're truly a high quality artist, because that's what they're really buying: you.

[Jeremiah White]

That's a good point Michele; that's another thing that I've been wondering about as well. I haven't really seen too many traverse the two ends too often so I have a hard time finding those that can provide some personal experiences with it.

I've seen other markets do well with being able to sell to a broad group of people by having an economy version and a luxury version of their product. My question would be, does that prove true in portraiture as well?

Regarding the lower priced artwork, do you think that it would be more acceptable to sell them as sketches in a different medium instead of just smaller, lower quality artworks while still being seen in a positive, high quality artist light? Would you consider a small oil or charcoal sketch as something that would be seen by others as an equivalent to the high end finished paintings?

This thread has given me a lot to think about.

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Originally Posted by Jeremiah White

Regarding the lower priced artwork, do you think that it would be more acceptable to sell them as sketches in a different medium instead of just smaller, lower quality artworks while still being seen in a positive, high quality artist light?

Hi Jeremiah,

I'm not sure I understand the above sentence, but I don't think it's a good idea to put anything less than your very best work out there for the world to see. For any price. Forgive me if I don't understand you correctly, but it seems that you are thinking of selling some lower quality artwork for a lesser price? I would rather throw something out that I'm not completely happy with than sell it cheap. I know it may seem like a quick fix or an easy way to make some money, but I strongly believe it's the long haul that counts. And the payout in the long run will be greater, if you can just hold out. Just my opinion.

Ah, just had another thought. Have you heard the saying that one's portfolio is always judged by their worst work? That scares the heck out of me, maybe that's why I'm so particular about what leaves my studio.

Joan

[Jeremiah White]

You're right, I wasn't very clear.

What I meant was, do you think that it would be more acceptable to market the lower priced work as sketches and sometimes of a different medium. For example, instead of just offering it as a quick 8X10 painting, you could make it seem more as an 8X10 sketch. A sketch being something that people would normally associate with fine art but also realize that it's not just some sloppy and quick piece of work but instead a skilled gesture. So, in other words a fast work is not a sloppy rushed work but instead a high quality sketch.

So to sum it up, would you still be viewed as an artist of high caliber if you offered a lower priced sketch (not a painting in the traditional sense) as an alternative to people that couldn't afford a full painting? In doing so, making sure that you're differentiating your normal work from your sketches that you offer.

I wrote more words this time but that doesn't always mean that it makes more sense. If it doesn't I can try to throw out more examples and such to make more sense out of my ramblings.

[Mike McCarty]

Jeremiah,

I would encourage you to spend some time looking through the SOG site. I think you will find that many artist offer less expensive charcoal or other monochromatic sketches.

Debra,

If I could paint something in one or two days I would keep it for another two weeks. I want the client to feel that everything I do is labored over, pondered and re-pondered. I think that for the kind of work we do "value points" are deducted for speed. Not actual speed, but perceived speed.