Maroger

Virgil Elliott · 04-29-2005, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimberly Dow

Thank you Virgil for responding.

All this experimentation with mediums and supports is due to certain issues. I'd gladly go back to just paint and linseed if I could solve them...

I found I loved a flat smooth surface when I tried ABS. I have stopped using that because of the all the issues and advice I have read, (except a few small pieces I will finish). I found gesso panels which seemed to fit this OK and am ordering them through realgesso.com. But - these present their own problems. The initial sucking up of paint is not a big issue - but the glare on the surface is. In certain situations it is almost impossible to see the painting. Then there is the uneven surface from paints sinking in. I can fix the uneveness with retouch - but then glare is still an issue. If I could let my paintings sit for 6 months I could do a matte varnish, but I cant always do that. And I hear about issues with retouch as well.

Here is what I want - it is not as simple as it sounds....

I want something to put on my panel paintings as soon as they are dry to the touch that evens them out without too much glare. A nice even sheen from a product that has no issues with longevity.

Is this too much to ask, I beg you!?

Kim,

Several things cause uneven gloss. One of them is thinning paints with solvent, which produces a matte effect, but the matte effect is uneven because some passages will have less solvent, and some more. Mediums with polymerized oils like stand oil or sun-thickened linseed oil will increase gloss, but usually unevenly, again, because there will be more of it in some passages than in others. Same with resin mediums.

I've found just using linseed oil as my medium, with no solvent and no resin of any kind, produces the most even degree of gloss, which is less glossy than what I was getting with stand oil mediums or resin-oil mediums. It's important not to add too much. Too much of any medium is not a good idea.

If your ground is very absorbent, it's best to add some linseed oil to the paints, as some of the binding oil will be drawn out by the absorbancy of the ground, which could leave the paint underbound unless there is a bit of extra oil in it to compensate.

Virgil Elliott

Kimberly Dow · 04-30-2005, 02:43 AM

Thanks again all.

When I was less experienced, this was so simple. I have a couple paintings that are 17 years old or so. I used oil paint and taught myself without doing even the most basic of research. When the paint was too thick, I thinned it with turpentine only. The paintings, although horrible in skill, still look fine. The richness of the oil is missing though because they are very matte from the turpentine. I never varnished them either.

The more I learn, the more confused I am.

Allan Rahbek · 04-30-2005, 07:43 AM

This problem with matte and glossy areas has much to do with how the ground is absorbing the oil from the applied paint layer.

When we use a very absorbing ground, as gesso, and start painting with more or less diluted paints, the oil will be absorbed in the gesso .

When the paint is applied uneven on the surface ( as it always is), it will dry with uneven speed. Thick paint will take the longest time to dry.

If we paint too soon on this uneven dry surface there will typically be three different surfaces :
1. The uncovered gesso with full absorbency
2. Parts that are painted with thin and now dry paint that will not be absorbent.
3. Parts that are painted with thick paint that are not yet dry. That is where the problems will show up because the ground is still absorbent.

When we paint on a not yet dry thick layer of paint, with another layer, the top layer will normally dry first, because it need oxygen to dry. The new layer prevent the bottom layer to dry so that it will be absorbent for a long time and drink the oil from the top layer, that becomes matte.

Good craftsmanship is to either paint wet into wet or wet upon dry. And when having a wery absorbent ground, priming it to be moderately absorbent.

Sargent advised to always paint wet into wet using no or little extra medium. I have only seen one of his paintings that suffer from cracks and gliding out of the top layer. That is his late self portrait.

Allan

Michele Rushworth · 04-30-2005, 09:23 AM

Quote:

The new layer prevent the bottom layer to dry so that it will be absorbent for a long time and drink the oil from the top layer, that becomes matte.

I get this sinking in of upper dark layers even when the layer I'm painting on is dry to the touch, after a week or so of drying. Hmmm.....

Allan Rahbek · 04-30-2005, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michele Rushworth

I get this sinking in of upper dark layers even when the layer I'm painting on is dry to the touch, after a week or so of drying. Hmmm.....

Hmm..... My post is based on traditional knowledge from the house painters craft that I have been taught and included theoretical teaching on school.

When a painted surface looks matte it is because the oil content is low compared to the pigments. This is seen when the paint is lean or the oil has disappeared down into the ground or when the paint has been added mineral spirit that had evaporated.

Imagine a shallow water with stones under the water. The stones will show their real colors when wet. But on low tide the stones get dry and look different.

Dark pigments that are matte will get relative lighter than light pigments. Also some earth colors need more oil to stay covered.

I was told that linseed oil will dry over a longer period. First within a couple of days and then it will bleed (get soft) and harden even more. Later it will bleed again. This process takes place in longer and longer intervals and progress over years. Incredible but true.

The linseed oil will obtain water from moist in the air or the wood, it is painted on, and let it through.

Linseed oil has the smallest molecules of all medias and will swell when drying. That is what makes it superior as a painting media because it secures a solid adherence.

That might also be the reason why it is so forgiving to us painters and all our different practices.

Allan

Michele Rushworth · 04-30-2005, 11:28 AM

I know that the dull areas are because the oil is being absorbed by the lower layers. When it happens I "oil out" the top layers with more linseed oil. What I'm wondering is if it would happen less if I waited a couple of weeks or longer between layers.

William Whitaker · 05-04-2005, 01:12 AM

Dear Kim,

Virgil knows a great deal about paints and art materials and he

William Whitaker · 05-04-2005, 01:41 AM

Since I

Kimberly Dow · 05-04-2005, 02:00 AM

And despite all this - aren't we the luckiest people in the world to be doing what we love for a living?

Don't be grumpy Bill - I can't even imagine how many thousands of artists and art students there are who want to be just like you when we grow up.

And just to let you know, I personally would dig through a whole dump to find one of your sketches if someone were ever foolish enough to throw one out.

Thank you for chiming in Bill.

Virgil Elliott · 04-30-2005, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimberly Dow

Thanks again all.

When I was less experienced, this was so simple. I have a couple paintings that are 17 years old or so. I used oil paint and taught myself without doing even the most basic of research. When the paint was too thick, I thinned it with turpentine only. The paintings, although horrible in skill, still look fine. The richness of the oil is missing though because they are very matte from the turpentine. I never varnished them either.

The more I learn, the more confused I am.

Kim,

If seventeen years seems like a long time to you, enjoy your youth while it lasts. To me, seventeen years ago seems like yesterday.

Many of the problems that result from poor choices of materials and/or techniques do not show up in oil paintings for 80-200 years. Short-term, one can get by with just about anything.

Virgil Elliott