Cadmiums versus No Cadmiums.

[David Draime]

So, Marvin, when are you going to finish this painting?

Just kidding. After reading through the color theory thread (very informative and entertaining!) I have some pretty strong opinions about all this, but, to be fair, I will wait until Tim posts his painting. After all, this is about the relative merits of your respective approaches to color, and I don't want to critique anything that isn't actually posted here.

[Richard Monro]

Marvin,
Beautiful and luminous. Also tenderly done. I would be interested in knowing the colors you are using and mixing to set up your palette. Is there a thread that discusses your palette?

[Kimberly Dow]

Marvin, I have a question, not a critique. With all I have read on some earth colors sinking in - and I've had this happen myself - what do you do to prevent it? I'm finding I can usually even it all out in sheen when I put re-touch varnish on it - but I get jittery when having to explain this to clients if they see it in progress. I can oil it a bit, but that fades and I worry about yellowing later.

[Kimberly Dow]

By the way - Im pretty sure Tim is already gone for his workshop somewhere. I am sure he will post when he gets back though.

[Rob Sullivan]

Marvin-

Would you mind posting the uncropped version of this, as well? I know this is all about cads v. no cads in flesh, hence the closeup - but I would like again to see the interplay of the roughed-in sections against the finished areas. This piece is the first time I'd ever seen you do this, and it really grabbed me when it was unveiled.

I know I can see it in another thread - but for anyone new, I'm sure they would love to see the full view. Plus - I'm too lazy to go find it

I'm looking forward to Tim's post, as we shall see what we shall see.

[Marvin Mattelson]

David, once they made the mistake of paying me I stopped working on it. They never knew the difference. All kidding aside, I'm looking forward to the opinions you've formed.

Richard, the top row is mixed from White, Raw Umber and Ivory Black. The next row is Yellow Ochre lowered with Raw Umber. The Yellow Ochre is lightened with Yellow Ochre Pale which is in turn lightened with White. The third row down is Terra Rosa lightened with White lowered with Black. The bottom row is Indian Red lightened with White and lowered with Black. I call it the Mattelson Palette. I named it after my Dad.

Kim, as the layers get built up and oiled out they sink in less. I use retouch at the end where needed. My strategy regarding my clients reaction to the painting in progress is to blow them away with the beauty of the painting so they don't notice the other stuff. If properly planned the painting should look good from out the shoot. It works every time.

My feeling is that Tim won't post his paintings at all.

[Marvin Mattelson]

Rob, you always were kind of lazy. Here's the full painting.

[John Reidy]

Marvin, you know my thoughts on this painting and I look forward to seeing Tim's. I only know Tim through this website and consequently am not as familiar with his thought process as I am yours (sorry to say) .

P.S. You may have received a email from me that was innappropriately named from someone called Suzanne. I'll explain later at a more convenient time.

To discuss pallettes as a critique from paintings requires a perceived goal - realistic color/values, dramatic or emotional enhancement, etc. Or just personal preferences. I will assume that personal references will be the criteria.

But to continue the thread regarding pallettes and students, I believe the Reilly pallette (or Mattleson) pallette offers a thorough understanding and utilization of color and value that will allow the students to manage the pallette instead of the pallette handling the students. If after they learn value, that seems to me to be the time to tackle new pallettes.

It's like learning to draw before you learn to paint.

[Jean Kelly]

As a self propelled student and artist I dove in with both feet running. I looked at artists here on the site and picked one to follow (Chris Saper). I bought her book and started mixing paint and cads were on the palette. I learned very quickly that a little cad goes a long way! I love the vibrancy of Chris's work and never expected that I would create something like her quality of work. But I had fun!

I also tried limited palettes and now Marvin's palette. Which is best? None of them! It's like comparing apples to oranges and discussing the merits of each seems a waste of time to me and a good way to create dissent and hard feelings.

Marvin, your work is subtle, polished, sophisticated and a true pleasure to look at. There is nothing to critque here.

Tim, yours is on a totally different plane. It has a otherwordly quality that knocks your socks off.

Marvin, if Tim's work is from Mars, yours is from Venus. Why can't we appreciate the work based on individuality instead of this palette is better for students to learn from, or earth tones are the proper choice for skin as opposed to the uncontrollable cads.

As a student I have enjoyed every pigment I own and will fight for my right to keep them all!

One more thought, pulling Bougereau into this comparison is like adding chocolate to the whole mix. Chocolate will always come out on top in my book, it's the talent, not the palette.

Jean

[Marvin Mattelson]

John I just want to clarify that the Reilly palette is Cadmium based. His palette is arranged in three rows, one for neutrals, one based on Cadmium Orange and one based on Cadmium Red. I took Reilly's value based arrangement and substituted his cadmiums for my earth tones. His palette is capable of far greater chromatic intensities than I feel are necessary to paint flesh while mine covers a wider range of hues.

Many artists prior to Reilly used a set up which featured color strings arranged by value. DaVinci and Bouguereau are but two.