Should we give up our reference?

[Magdalena Castaneda]

Jimmie, can you share the wording on that? I think it is ok for clients as well. Holly, never know when these discussions can come in handy. I will be reading the other discussions again once I find them again.

All the Best, Magdalena

[Jimmie Arroyo]

I have some forms at work so here goes,

"I understand the photograph(s) taken or provided, will become the sole property of artist. I may not sell, profit, or use in any form, the reference or finished image for personal purposes."

This also covers pictures that someone may send me(provided). Let's say you mail me a pic of yourself for me to use for my own purpose, not commissioned, you're giving me ownership of the pic. You are not able to use it, post it, or whatever. I give the model an 8x10 print which is just for hanging. They can use it on their website with my permission, but they can only display it, not profit from it.

Hope that helped.

[Michele Rushworth]

When people ask I downplay the value of the photos themselves and explain that they're not any kind of finished product or anything worth keeping. They're "just a reference for me to paint from", I tell them.

I deliberately make the photos fairly unappealing in and of themselves so clients won't want them. Don't get me wrong, I try to take the best photographs I can in terms of lighting, posing, background, expression, etc, to paint from. But when I show them to the client I print them fairly small and gang up many of them on a page. I also crop in very closely on the various face shots, so close that they don't look at all like anything you'd want to put in a frame. I don't want the photographs to seem like finished works, or something a client would want to have copies of. You could even take this a step further and print them so the color is a bit "off", or print them too light, just for when the client sees them.

I also feel that giving the client the actual photo(s) you worked from devalues the painting. It also invites nitpicking. They may adore the painting when they first see it, but if given the chance to compare side by side with the original photo they might suddenly feel that, oh, her cheeks are much more red than in the photo, or not red enough, or the eyes are too light or too dark.

The painting must stand on its own merits, free from any millimeter by millimeter comparison with the photo. After all, I'm not trying to make a copy of the photo, I'm trying to improve upon it.

[Mike McCarty]

Moderators note: I'm going to change the name of this thread to make it easier to identify.

[Magdalena Castaneda]

Jimmie, great, thanks for the wording I'll get this on my contracts right away.
Michele, another valuable perspective, important points.
Mike, now I will definitely find this discussion again for sure.

Thank you all for taking time out of your busy days to address this issue once again. Well, here goes.

All the Best, Magdalena

[Cynthia Leininger]

I thought these changes may enhance Jimmy's quote a little bit. I may sound like I am a nitpicker, I'm really not (honest!)

"I understand the reference photograph(s) of the model(s) will become the sole property of the artist. I may not sell, profit, or use in any form, the reference photographs or finished portrait for personal gain."

[Jimmie Arroyo]

I guess it would depend what you're doing this for.

My actual contract says "property of Jimmie Arroyo" not "artist". I should have made that clearer. I feel the use of your name is better.

I did'nt write "photograph" in case I'm sent a digital file as reference. I should maybe change it to photographs and digital files, or simply "visual material".

It may not be a portrait I'm working on. This would not apply to figurative work. It would be fine if for a client commissioned piece.

I used ''purposes" so it includes the use that is not for personal gain. Someone simply excited about having their likeness immortalized, may want to post it on their personal website just for the sake of showing it off, which I feel is harmless. I don't want the model posting the artwork all over the internet without my permission, then telling me it was in pure fun, not for personal gain.

There are flaws in my contract I'm sure that could be adressed more clearly, but so far I've only worked with people that have no modeling experience and are doing it for fun. A good search on the net would probably produce a tight contract that would apply to the individual's needs. If I remember correctly, I lifted my contract off a magazine, then added and changed things to better suit me.