Ethics and art

[Allan Rahbek]

And none of those stone throwing colleagues did ever show their paintings to a friend or professor before deciding to join the show, or ???

Well of course not !

Allan

PS.
I believe for myself that I can see on a painting if the brush was "hold " by another. That be tracing from a photo or literally painted by another hand. Both are disgusting and should be noticed by the jury.

[Kimberly Dow]

Allan,

I think the point that I am taking and digesting is that there wouldn't be an ethical problem with asking or receiving a friends/collegues/past professor's critique or opinion on a piece and possibly making changes. It's the 'publicness' of the forums where anyone can read that changes the rules. It could bring in people who say - "hey, it was your idea, but you changed 15 things about it because of 5 people's input."

I am not saying I agree it's right, I am saying I don't want to be accused of being wrong. Just trying to be safe instead of sorry. To me I look at it the same way I might a copyright issue - if I am not sure how others would see it - I best not do it.

[John Crowther]

This, alas, isn't so much an ethical dilemma as a situation that can conceiveably bring you in conflict with contest rules. We discussed this at length within the past year on another art forum, and a lot of people concluded that they could no longer post work for critique if they had any expectation of eventual entry in a contest. You're right, Kimberly, about competition rules against work done in a workshop or under supervision, and the conclusion of most people was that although "supervision" isn't explicitly defined, exposure to critique in a public forum in which many teachers and experts participate can easily be construed as "supervised," comments are solicited, suggestions made, and work is altered. Mind you, I'm not happy with it either, but we have to live with it.

John C.

[Michele Rushworth]

I suppose the only way to resolve this would be to ask the organizers of three or four of the bigger competitions and see what they think.

[Sharon Knettell]

I sincerely believe, that they probably mean work that is being done, "under supervision" in a local mental health facility under the nervous eyes of medical professionals, as a form of art therapy, now currently in vogue.

If you are in fact happily dabbling away unchaperoned in your own studio, I would not worry too much.

As a matter of fact, Marvin told me Alicia Blue's ankles were too fat, when he saw her in Boston. I fixed them and now I have an interested client. Do you think I should give Marvin a percentage?

[Marvin Mattelson]

Sharon, at least 75% to be fair. My reasoning is as follows: what chance does a person have of standing on their own with problematic ankles? Therefore what chance is there of a painting standing on it's own with ankle problems? I'm not gonna haggle over a few percentage points. Please make it payable to "fineartportrait." No personal checks please!

[John Crowther]

It ultimately doesn't matter what we think, it's what competition organizers think. My best guess, from exposure to some of these folks, is that most of them are, surprise surprise, decent, logical, folks, but we're talking about the occasional nazi. Do you want to risk it? At the same time, do you want to ask if there's a possiblity you'll get shot down? But then, do you want to enter a contest with that kind of draconian attitude. I look at it this way, if I post for critiques it's not because I want everyone to say "wow, you have a winner," it's because I feel there's areas where I need help, which means I've already disqualified myself from entering a competition. If you have a painting that you think is a slam dunk winner, then enter the contest and post it later, possibly to ask why those so and so's didn't recognize my genius.

John C.

[Elizabeth Schott]

Wow, some people are really going to retire comfortably form this forum!

Wait until Cynthia takes her percentage too!

So you get money with these prizes aye?

[Allan Rahbek]

I see the point.

That means, in fact, that if you are going to join a competition you can

[Kimberly Dow]

Allan -

I don't see that. If you are unveiling a work it is assumed you are done. It is understood that artists get comments all the time - good and bad, but with a critique on a forum you are posting for help and comments to improve your painting.