Marketing yourself?

[Steven Sweeney]

AFTER I was married and started raising 2 boys (really 3 counting my husband)

A very famous potter/sculptor here in Taiwan, named Ah Leon, was recently giving a slide presentation at my son's school, and a photo came up of him at his potter's wheel, elbow deep in a clay vase, with two kids and a woman seated nearby. The artist said of the photo, "My wife has three children . . . of which I am the oldest."

My daughter just sent me an e-mail from DisneyWorld, saying that she was having fun while trying as well to conduct herself in a well-mannered way but, she said, "It's hard when your dad is Goofy."

Perhaps this is a more common perception amongst wives and daughters than I had been aware.

Stanka, I've never told a single person about the gallerys' commission on artwork without inducing something between cardiac arrest and militant outrage. Nobody can believe it. That being said, most galleries have to pay substantial rents in high-visibility locations and original works of art don't go out the door very often, so the padding's got to be sewn in somewhere. (I'm actually more unhappy about a Realtor's taking 7% of the value of my house.) Still . . . when I see a gallery piece that I really like, my mental churn goes something like, "I'd pay $1,000 to the artist for that, but no way am I going to pay the gallery another $1,000." If a gallery is moving your work, that's great, but you do get yourself into a painted corner, because once you've accepted representation, you have an obligation (ethical and probably legal, depending on the agreement) not to undercut the gallery by selling your work on the side for your "discount" price.

It's a sticky wicket. I'd try to unstick it, but my son's got this really cool Nintendo game on the other monitor . . .

A guy who just wants to have fun,
Steven

[Chris Saper]

Forty percent?

"Because that's way we've always done things.." ?

Because a 40 percent number is enough to keep the doors open?

Because artists are so willing to accept it, that owners have never competed with each other on a cost basis, to say "I want your work. My gallery can make it on 30 percent."?

Never having run a gallery, I don't have a clue what the financials look like...for some though, I can bet their overhead is enormous, coupled with the cost of full color print advertising, particuarly in regular national magazines. But while the overhead for a place like Portraits Inc. must be staggering, it in no way compares to a little storefront in Scottsdale, Arizona that wants FIFTY percent.

The idea of across the board percentages, by definition, means that the the $20,000 painter is probably heavily subsidizing the $800 painter.

Still, it all gets back to your own price structure, and whereyouwill find yourself over the longer term. Remember Warren Beatty in "Heaven Can Wait"? He said something to the effect, it doesn't matter what it costs, it matters what we make. If your net take after paying the sales commission keeps you "whole", you'll be OK, so long as your volume doesn't suffer.

So 40 percent? It depends on where you are, and where your price structure is. Being compensated properly is YOUR business. Selling the work is theirs.

Now, of course, other business concerns come into play. Far and away, the biggest chunk of value in painting a portrait is your time. However, there are a lot of other regular expenditures that attend the business, and they are under your control. Buying in quantity, standardizing materials, PLANNING your own budget, saying "No" to marginal opportunities, etc. I have seen so many artists who look at thier sales, subtract their expenses, and then find out what they earn per hour (and it can be an abysmal surprise).

Chris

[Mary Sparrow]

I'm curious, and if noone wants to answer my rude question, (my mother would faint if she knew I was asking people how much they make) that is fine.

But I am curious as to the range of money per hour people actually make painting portraits?

I have found it varies a whole lot for me. A portrait I struggle through could end up being $15/hour, then one I find particularly easy could end up ten times that since I charge obvioulsy by piece. Usually it falls somewhere in the middle.

When you are pricing your work, do you figure in your mind what the minimum dollar per hour is you hope to make and go from there? Or do you figure another way?

Pricing is a very hard thing for me. There is so little information on how to do it right! I don't want to undersell myself or back myself in the corner. I do think I could go higher, noone ever complains about my prices being too high, especially after they have gone through the brochures of Portraits South, Portraits Inc. etc.
If anything they think they are stealing it after that. I think that because I am so much less expensive is why I stay busy, though I am quite sure these people would go with a more expensive artist if they didn't like my work.

However, because I don't have to compensate anyone forty percent, I am a WHOLE lot less. Is this a bad or good thing?

OOOOOOOH..I HATE the money part of this. (Love making it, but hate asking for it).

[Cynthia Daniel]

Never having run a gallery, I don't have a clue what the financials look like...for some though, I can bet their overhead is enormous, coupled with the cost of full color print advertising, particuarly in regular national magazines.

Chris,

From everything I know, when the brokers run those expensive ads, whatever artist is featured pays 1/2 the cost of the ad. I always wondered what happens if someone calls off the ad and then goes with another artist. Does the artist who paid 1/2 of a very costly ad get some token percent to help offset their investment?

Steven,

Too bad your're not attending the Portrait Society of America event in Philly. At that event, all the Stroke of Genius artists (well most) that are in attendance are converging to have dinner one night....about 30 of us. From the forum are Stanka Kordic, Peggy B., Karin Wells, Jim Riley. I'm sure I can speak for all of us in that you would be a most welcome and entertaining addition. Why don't you just hope a flight and drop by?

[Steven Sweeney]

Thanks for the invitation, Cynthia, sounds like a good gig but it's a 20-hour "hop" each way and I've already got the trip booked for mid-May. Anyway, I'm moody, surly, and shy in person, deaf in one ear, hear selectively with the other (apparently a "male thing"), leer, and exhibit marginal social skills and highly unsanitary table manners. Later, in the lounge, karaoke often makes me weep and I begin to exercise poor judgment. I think it best to stay on top of the game I'm running now.

[Jim Riley]

Although I continued to paint portraits throughout the many years that I worked in the commercial/industrial design business it has only been within the last year that I have committed to full-time painter (as hobbies, yard, and other interests permit) and have found that networking has been my biggest (most productive) activity. The many years of part-time painting provided me a portfolio and the materials to display on PortraitArtist.com (A Stroke of Genius). The latter is my online portfolio and is an easy way to show your work or have it circulated among prospects, family, friends, other professionals, etc. (In the old days you had to have multiple portfolios (Photo prints) to send and recover from possible clients. Yuk!)

I also had business cards made (attached) and it has been quite effective. Several commissions have come about when a client forwarded my card to a friend or associate. The business card sends them to my web site and, as you can see, I list important portrait Society memberships (Complete with typo to be fixed upon reorder). These cards costs less than $125.00 per 500 for full color on one side and black on the text side. The reorder will be less. Even with the type correction.

For many years I donated watercolor floral paintings to the regional public TV station for their annual "Art Auction" but this year agreed to donate an oil portrait (Approx 16" x 20") I supplied a painting as the example to be displayed on TV and the winner will get a painting of the subject he choses. As good fortune would have it, the painting will also be cited as a "Judges award winner" among the donations and promoted often throughout the three day event. It will reach an audience that loves the arts and covers an area 7 or 8 times larger than my community.

I am also negotiating to paint the portrait of a well known restaurantuer/art lover (many paintings are displayed in his restaurant) that I will offer to paint for free if neccessary to hang prominently in his business. I did something similar a number of years ago and gained much recognition and more than a few commissions.

[Cynthia Daniel]

Jim,

Are you going to put Doris on the next version of your business card?! And, when I get back from the shows, we need to put Doris on your web site.

Administrator's Note: I could have made this a private message to Jim, however, I wanted those needing marketing help to see when you have such a winner portrait like Doris, you want to capitalize on it as much as possible). If you missed the unveiling of "Doris", you can find it here: http://forum.portraitartist.com/show...=&threadid=593

[Jim Riley]

Cynthia,

Yes, I may do that. Given the relatively low cost of the cards, I have also considered having a set made with a childs portrait. I definitely will add her to the web site. This portrait seems to evoke the same kind of response that I received with the portrait of "Willi" on my current card. Everyone wants to know who they are.

Forgive me for burging into your thread, but I have a question which is relevant to the topic of marketing yourself. This time it is not myself I need to market, but my father, Joel Kass.

My father is a typical talented artist who doesn't know how to market himself but neither do I. I wanted to find a person who could basically sell and promote his paintings, what can I do or who can i contact? I tried looking for an agency on the net but I saw none. are there any agents or promoters existing?

Please give me your thoughts.
Ben Kass,
My father's web site - http://www.joelkass.com/

[Michele Rushworth]

You can find a list of twenty or so portrait agents elsewhere on this site, with contact information.

I do my own marketing, following the ideas in great books like "Art Marketing 101" and "Taking the Leap - Building a Career as a Visual Artist", both available on Amazon. I'm also doing a lot of personal networking and donating to four or five very high-end charity auctions in the city where I live (Seattle).

I've always heard that any artist (or any self employed business person, for that matter) needs to spend about half their time on marketing. That's about what I do. Given that, I understand why the agents charge 40%. Having a productive agent relationship frees the artist from having to spend all that time on doing their own marketing.