Underpainting with RU

Richard Budig · 02-01-2004, 05:37 PM

I've been slopping paint for almost 20 years, and decided to try one of those raw umber underpaintings for the first time. Yikes!!! Not easy.

I'd appreciate some thoughts on this. My guess is that this has been covered, here, before, so if someone could point me in the right direction, I'd really appreciate it.

Julie Deane · 02-15-2004, 11:25 PM

Hi Richard

Are you trying to do glazing? Or just using an underpaint of any sort for the first time under a more alla prima approach?

Richard Budig · 02-16-2004, 10:36 AM

Julie:

For all these years, I've worked mostly at direct painting -- a solid sketch/drawing, and then start painting. That's a difficult way to go, but if you keep at it, you eventually start to "get it." I thought I was in that notch, now -- of getting it -- so I decide to branch out and learn to paint the old fashioned way.

Over the years, I've read tons of stuff about painting -- all those techniques -- but that old master thing of using solid underpaintings kept popping up, so I decided I'd have a go at it.

I don't know about you, but it was like starting over, in some ways.

And those who write about it aren't all that clear, either. They talk about underpaintings using raw umber, burnt umber, all the different reds, black and white, and so on. This confuses me because when you start glazing/scumbling over them, you get different effects with different colors, leading me to believe that the color of the underpainting is quite important. But, these writers don't get into that very much. So, I feel I'm still out there on that limb of the tree labeled "for dumb students."

I would like to know more about it, but from what I've done so far, it's a very tricky thing. Gotta get that underpainting just the right degree of value and then you have to sort out what colors to glaze/scumble over them. It's about as tricky as when I started with direct painting -- sorting what color/value to use where.

Still, it picks away at me. I feel we should know as much as possible about making pictures.

I have found a site (www.artpapa.com) run by a Russian who goes into some detail about it. Even has demonstrations, but I'm not sure I like what he says, which, in effect, is: We're not worried about the real color, just that we get a pretty picture in the end.

So far, my attempt has left me a bit dizzy -- it seemed more difficult to lay in color. That cussed underpainting keeps getting in the way. :-)

Julie Deane · 02-16-2004, 05:50 PM

Hi -
I can't advise you much on this technique. So far I have only used glazes to correct values or too bright a color, and occasionally for painting, as in a reflection in a mirror. Obviously, since the glazes go over the underpainting, the color of the underpainting affects the final result. Some of that can be deducted by thinking about color theory, and some can be learned through trial and error.

But I can point you to an excellent demo Karin Wells did on the forum, showing how she glazes. Unfortunately, I don't have time to look up where it is for you right now, but if you search messages with her name and glazing, you should find it. The picture is of a fantasy/elf person, and she takes you from her original underpainting to the final product. It was a real "aha!" moment for me when I saw these. I understand the process so much better now.

There's also a wonderful beginning/middle/end example by an artist whose name I can't recall at the moment (sorry - it's that I recall the face, can't recall the name thing). He is headquarted in Holland, and has posted his tryptichs for us to view, in which he starts out with a very light underpainting. Look up tryptich and you might find it.

If anyone can provide the links, that would be nice.

Mike McCarty · 02-16-2004, 06:05 PM

You might want to give this thread a look: "Underpainting by Karin Wells".

Julie Deane · 02-17-2004, 03:18 PM

Hi -

I found some info on the other artist I was thinking of. It's Scott Barner. Go to http://bartner.com and you'll see some samples of his stages.

Leslie Bohoss · 02-27-2004, 08:08 AM

Hi!
here a lot of info :

http://forum.portraitartist.com/show...&threadid=1703
Cheers!

Juan Martinez · 03-01-2004, 09:51 AM

Richard

Have you found what you are looking for? You mentioned "old master techniques"; may I ask which old masters you have in mind. Maybe I will have some suggestions for you, depending on the era of painting you're interested in emulating.

Frankly, I'm generally skeptical about "glazing over a monochrome underpainting" ever having been a widespread and effective method. Most of the paintings I have seen that I know were painted in this manner, look terrible today because much of the glazed colour has long since disappeared.

All best.

Juan

William Whitaker · 03-02-2004, 02:37 AM

Richard,

I agree completely with Juan. It is best to paint as directly and as broadly as possible. I only glaze when a special effect calls for it. That is not very often.

Bill

Marvin Mattelson · 03-02-2004, 03:45 PM

I'm with Bill and Juan. I think that for the most part glazing is unnecessary. Besides which, using little paint and lots of medium ( the essence of glazing) makes for a weak paint film. Painting with a loaded brush gives you a lot more control over the colors you can mix and the subtleties you can achieve.