Retouch Varnish Question
 

I have a painting from last March when it was particularly cold and the paint was taking forever to dry. I believe I put retouch on it too soon as there are still tacky areas - which of course now have dust and lint accumulated.

Any solutions or suggestions? Im thinking at this point it needs to be painted over.

Kim,

Is it the varnish or the paint that is tacky? It will make a difference as to what you will do. Try a test patch to see which is the culprit. I suggest using some paint thinner on a lint free cloth, like cheesecloth, and GENTLY rub the surface of the tacky area. If the tackiness comes off with little or no color your may have had a varnish that never set up because of the cold. If so GENTLY wiping the surface with solvent and clean cloth to remove the varnish will work.

If a lot of color shows up on the cloth, it may be a paint drying problem exacerbated by the varnish layer. I suggest a few more months of drying in that case. Any adhered dust can be removed with a very light rubbing with 600 grit sandpaper when the painting has completely dried.

Unfortunately, I dont have the painting anymore and it is ..hmmm...nine hours away. I'm hearing about it being tacky, I havent confirmed that for myself. I have to fix it or re-paint it since it is owned by a collector. Ive never had this happen before. I cant imagine any more drying time would make a difference...it's already been since last March. I hope it is the varnish then. I wont get up to that area until November...so I have until then to figure it out.

Thanks for the info Richard!

Kim,

You might also try contacting the company that manufactured the varnish. They probably have encountered the problem before and might be able to give you some good guidance.

Wish you success in solving the problem.

If I'm not mistaken, retouch varnish is about 10 per cent varnish, and ninety per cent turp. Thus, your problem may well not be a retouch varnish problem. It should have dried long ago. Retouch varnish, as I understand it, and as I use it, is for briefly bringing up all the values to the same degree of "juiciness" so that you can get started on that day's painting in correct values and colors.

That leaves the paint, itself. What paint is underneath? Some colors are notoriously slow driers . . . alizarin, cad yellow . . . I think. If you have some heavy passages of slow drying paint, I would suspect them, first.

The drying part of the problem may be resolved if you can't get up there for another couple of months. It may be dry by then. But as previously suggested, you may have to sand with a very light grit, and repaint a passage. But, do it lightly so that it dries.

Kim,

A while ago I tried to buy some W & N matte retouching varnish and all the stores were out of it. This was when I used to mix matte and gloss to get a satin finish. After asking a lot of questions I finally found out that all the matte retouching varnish had been sent back, apparently because it "went bad." When I asked what happened when it went bad, I was told by a couple of store personnel that it didn't dry properly. This could have been true only of the matte version. Does anyone know whether something similar happens to the gloss version? I would check with the company on how to remove it.

Alex

Kim,

If it's still tacky after several months, something is wrong. What brand of paints did you use on the parts that are still tacky? Sometimes there is a bad batch that dries poorly with some of these companies who use poppy oil or sunflower oil as binders. If that is what's behind it, I'd scrape out and repaint those sections, using linseed oil paints only.

And don't varnish when it's cold or damp, not even retouch. The best time to varnish is in the middle of a hot, dry day, at least six months after the last brush stroke is dry to the touch. Cold and/or damp poses the risk of water getting into the varnish, and that can cause several problems.

I would also try to determine what the binding oil was in the paints that didn't dry. I'll guess right now that it was not linseed oil, but probably poppy oil, sunflower oil, or maybe safflower oil. I had some paints that didn't dry after something like twelve years on one of my test panels. I threw them out, and never used that brand again for anything I considered important. Sunflower oil and poppy oil do not dry well, so manufacturers who use them add driers to the paint to help them dry, but sometimes there is a bad batch that doesn't get enough drier. Linseed oil is the best binder for oil paints. Poppy and Sunflower are the worst.

Virgil Elliott

Thank you Virgil & Alexandra.

Im going to have to get my hands on that painting before I can determine what exact paints I used. I am not very organized in that way. Perhaps I will be now.

Virgil - you would wait 6 months even with Retouch? Or do you prefer not to use it?

Along the same lines....I've been told I can mix some wax in with Retouch to make a matte temporary varnish. I just received some Dorlands wax and have yet to try it yet. Anyone have comments about this practice?

Virgil wrote: I found a solution to this problem, one that was suggested to me by Dean Paules at the conference in D.C.

Since I live in Seattle (where weeks could go by waiting for a dry day during our rainy winters) I bought myself a space heater. I close up the studio windows and doors, heat up the room til it's pretty darn toasty, turn the heater off and apply the varnish.

Then I leave the room, closing the door behind me to keep the heat in, and wait a day or so until the varnish is completely dry. After that I go in, check that the varnish is dry, and open the windows and turn on the fan to vent all the varnish fumes.

I did this a couple of weeks ago and had no problems with clouding of the retouch varnish I applied.

Kim,

Ideally, I wouldn't use retouch varnish on my own work, but would wait at least six months and then apply the final varnish. If I were to use retouch varnish, it would not be before the painting had had adequate time to dry, i.e., at least two weeks.

Note that if you've used a slow-drying white, it could take a good long while for the paint to dry. I use lead-based whites, primarily those ground in linseed oil. This kind of white speeds the drying of all the paints it comes in contact with or is mixed with.

I know there is often a big rush to get a portrait finished and delivered by a deadline, and there might be a great temptation to varnish it before the paint is even dry, much less cured. I would advise against it. It would be better to deliver the portrait without varnish, and arrange to varnish it some months later. A layer of varnish over wet oil paint will interfere with the drying of the paint, by restricting the amount of oxygen that can reach it.

Virgil Elliott

What a relief to learn that more people than I have this problem with retouch varnish that will not dry. For some reason, the first layers seem to dry much more slowly than the last ones on the same painting. The last layers will generally dry in a week, while the first layers might take several months. But next time, I will try the advice to heat up the room. In order to avoid dust I often leave the paintings to dry in a unheated room that is not being used. That might just be the problem!

Every now and then I paint the next layer even though the retouch varnish is not quite dry yet, and after a while it is hard to tell wether it is the paint or the varnish that is not drying. But I do believe the varnish is to blame, really.

Not long ago I made the mistake of applying the next layer of retouch varnish before the last layer of paint was quite dry. Disaster! All the turp in the retouch varnish made the last layer of paint dissolve into some kind of mist-looking mess. Thank heavens the client was a sweet man, full of confidence that I would sort it all out during the next painting session...

One way to minimize this problem is to lean the painting against the wall, facing the wall, as it's drying. That way its surface is slightly tilted down and away from whatever dust is circulating around the room. Do this only after the varnish has set somewhat, or it will run down the painting. Leave the painting flat for a while, depending on how runny the varnish is, and then after a while, lean it against the wall.

That is a good idea, Michele, thanks! I believe most of the dust (or rather, dog's hairs and little hairs from wooly sweaters) gets there while the varnish is still very runny and the painting has to lie on its back. But after the varnish has settled a little, tilting the painting face down will be a good help so I can keep the painting in a heated room as the varnish dries completely. How silly that I never thought of it.

Good grief!!!

How much retouch varnish are you using? I've used retouch varnish for years, and never had it remain wet.

I do not mean to sound like I'm preaching, here, but this stuff is meant to be spritzed on very lightly. It is (for me, anyway) used to bring up the values to the way they all look when the paint is wet. Use no more than that.

My retouch spritzing dries in a very short time -- usually in minutes.

Use very little of this stuff. It is mostly turp, and will dissolve paint.

For anyone interested....

I ordered some Dorland's wax and used it today in some Retouch. I use the bottled retouch, not the spray.

I am VERY pleased with the results.

I was concerned because when I melted the wax, it didnt melt runny like I thought it would. I mixed it into the retouch, and mixed, and mixed some more....and there were still small pieces of wax kinda floating around. I decided to try it on an older piece anyway because the pieces seemed to blend in as soon as my brush picked them up. It looked great - gave a nice even sheen that is more matte than it is shiny.

I also used a cheap black foam brush today for the first time. It worked wonderful. Ive never found a decent varnish brush that didnt lose hairs while varnishing.

I agree with Virgil that if you dont have to use retouch it is best to wait, but I have a couple pieces going out to shows that had uneven shiny vs. matte areas and Ive never had much luck with oiling taking care of that completely. So, since it was too early to do a final varnish - this has done the trick.

Now I just need to find a better area to do this in. Im fairly certain I lost a few brain cells today while varnishing. Im not sure I have any extras to spare, so I best shape up.

And, for heaven's sake, keep the cats out of the room!

???
What's Dorland's wax, and what's it for? Can you please enlighten me Kim? :)

Marcus,

Dorland's is the brand - and it is a painting medium. It is a creamy wax and resin mixture. There are a lot of artists out there who use this with paint and achieve some really interesting effects. I do not know how they do this exactly though. This was my first time using it on advice from others. What it did for me was dull down the shine on the Retouch. Apparently if I were to buff the painting with a soft cloth now it would become shiny - just like waxing a car perhaps? But if left alone it is nice and matte.

Perhaps another artist more informed can explain how it is used as a medium with paints? Virgil?

Wax as a medium ...
 

Kimberly,
This is a great topic. I use retouch varnish all the time in glazing techniques as an in between stage to refresh the gloss of my painting. I have been glazing with layers for years and really enjoy the effect. I did however meet an artist who once also was a wax sculptor. She showed me how to use the wax and used it just like you would use any other medium by mixing small amounts into the paint as you paint. The painting turned out to have this really beautiful natural look to it. Something that I have always wanted to try again. So, Virgil, or anyone else, I would love to hear more on this subject. Thank you for bringing it up.
Also, on the animal hair ... It's unavoidable, to be an animal lover and your studio is in the house (or is it that you live in your studio?) as many artists have to do or choose to do. Thus, unfortunately my cat's hair will become the way that historian verify fakes vs. authentic paintings in hundreds of years especially my early work! ;) ... That and the bugs that get into plein air paintings.

Bobbi

I'm a little late to this ball game, but wanted to toss in another angle. No one has mentioned the ground, which is where I've had tackiness problems.

If you buy a pre-gessoed canvas and you get the end of the roll, sometimes you can get a pooling of oiliness. It almost looks like big blotches of linseed oil have dripped on the canvas. It is impossible to see these oily areas until you have started the painting. They are visible because the paint dries extremely slowly and in a semi-oval pattern. (The first time I encountered this, It was on a Governor's portrait...not where you want to get a trial by fire like this one...).

The paint took over a year to dry into these areas, and dried in a tree-ring pattern, working from the outside in.

Now that I have spotted this defect, I've been able to see it in others canvases. You can "fix" it when you recognize it by rubbing the surface with mineral spirits before you start painting, removing all the excess dried linseed oil from the surface.

Unfortunately, if you have already finished the painting, it cannot be fixed. I ended up scraping the Governors portrait, and starting again. (...and yes, it had already been delivered...)

BTW, I've been using a variety of retouch varnishes over the past 22 years, and have never had a problem with tackiness that you describe. The primary problems with retouch, is if you apply it on fresh paint (paint less than a day old), the retouch varnish can cause your painting to dissolve and run down the canvas. If you use too much retouch varnish too often on the canvas, the surface become hard and brittle. I've never had a problem with tackiness that could be attributed to retouch varnish.

Thank you for the warning, Peggy.

This may sound like a stupid question, but is this problem only for an oil primed support? You mention the "fix" by getting rid of the excess dried linseed oil in the pre-gessoed canvas but before I safely assume that this doesn't happen with acrylic primed I thought I should ask.

Thanks, for figuring this out for us, but sorry you had to find out the hard way. I guess a positive way to look at it is you probably have saved many future portraits because of it.

If that makes you feel any better.

??

Since the problem is related to excess linseed oil, I would assume that it would not happen on an acrylic primed canvas.

I rarely get my life and painters knowledge the easy way, by others mistakes. Unfortunately, I seem to have made more than my share. As a teacher, I also get to experience all my students mistakes as well. We have some dillies!

Because of this, I've become an archivists dream. I don't mess with anything! I've become a by the book painter.

Do you recall the brand of canvas? Did it happen more than once? I use the oil primed Claessens and so far (knock on linen) haven't had this happen on any of the rolls I've bought.

Since this was brought back up....

I think on the painting I originally started this thread about - that the cause was the paint brand, like Virgil suggested. I had some very very slow drying flake whites, several brands actually. Putting the retouch on top of it may have made it worse. Ive switched to Varsari Flake white now. It still does dry slowly, but it does dry.

And that painting is drying more and more with each week....so Im not going to have to repaint it - the client is fine with it. I may eventually need to sand it down a bit if there is too much dust on the surface. I'll cross that bridge later.

I had a painting do this once. The paint was a slow drier apparently - I think it was a sky painted with a lot of some sort of white, so the retouch varnish impeded the drying. It took a long time, but it did eventually dry. Glad yours did too, Kim.

Michele,

It was Fredrix brand, but I've seen it happen with other brands as well. It's a quality control thing..... And I've seen it happen on several different occasions.

Speaking of retouch, Welcome back, Ms Emeritus!

Don't be a stranger. (Get your 2006 schedule online, I'm trying to send people your way.)