I'm somewhat nonplussed by all of these comments, which I sincerely appreciate. As I told Minh, I only teach sporadically, somewhat because of space limitations which I hope to rectify in the coming year. But mostly it's because I see myself as a struggling student and am usually stumbling about in "learner's mind" and it doesn't occur to me.

Minh, and everyone, take advantage of whatever opportunities for learning come your way, wherever you find them. I lost a decade after art school not using my training, and have had to run to catch up in these last years.

Consequently, the only REAL mistake I think anyone makes is to stop working in the face of adversity. All other hurdles can be overcome with time and practice.

And, holy cow (!) please call me Tom.

[QUOTE]Steven,

I am curious about this, if you could elaborate that would be great.
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Quote: And the

Jeff,

If you like Ryder's book (I did), check out his web site, especially this demo.

Charcoal drawing

I wish his book covered more of the facial drawing aspects of a model, but he said I would have to take one of his classes and/or visit the demo's link above.

Hello Everyone,

I find all your comments very interesting and couldn

;) Isn't life a hoot! I have not been here in a while due to - well, living life - instead of my painting. I couldn't stop reading this thread and found myself truly relating to much of it. I thoroughly enjoyed those by you, Jeff and Minh; my significant other is beginning to feel not so significant at times.

Must be that beautiful full moon that helped tug at my heartstrings while reading some of these, as I related to some so much, and more as I strive to continue to read here on this great Forum and apply that which is so graciously shared.

I am so pleased and thankful for all of you. I hope I never appear unappreciative to those who give their time and share their expertise. But in all honesty, my last post or two actually had no responses at all and I dared not comment or inquire as to the reason, for fear of seeming a cry baby or whining. Truth :exclamati :?

I had applied all of the suggestions given here about one of my paintings but admit I did not post often in between to show progress. I work so much slower than all of you it seems. I have few commissions and work on other types of oils, having several going at one time. I finally finished the portrait that I had corrected, and by that time I had the plans for a presentation in order, set and dated, and had to show. Not to say I was unhappy with it at all, but admit (shamelessly) that I didn't follow through over and over with you all to get final advice.

Fear had set in, and I felt that any and even a tiny sad note here before my presentation (although all meant in good faith and I usually welcome your advice no matter how harsh) could make me crazy at the presentation and it would be too late to correct any of it anyway. What can I say?

I love this site and fall into a category to which I do not always feel that I measure up, but am striving to work harder and do just that. I do not take photos, but occasionally, and then must develop the entire roll before I can post the image here. By the time that is done and I receive your replies, I have completed the painting.

Please note that this is not complaining on my part, but that ole full moon is certainly working overtime tonight, and my words here indeed show the outcome. I do not post often, but please don't forget about me as you have all helped me through many a difficult time within the past year or so; some of that actually being with my painting, and all that life has to offer.

Whew - love the Cafe.

Thank you for your kind words, Beth. I critique here mostly just to make myself feel qualified. Most of the artists here are better artists than I. But I critique anyway.

I learned something from my little granddaughter who is five years old, and from my son, her father. I was giving her a little piano lesson, which she indeed wanted me to give her. In only a minute, she was done, and wanted to teach me something. I was so amused, and related it to my son. He told me that that is how he teaches her the violin. That is her little way. She has to take turns being teacher. You teach a little, she teaches a little.

Kind a like critiquing. We all are learning here, and we all want to teach as well. That's the way it is.

Dear friends,

As I see it, we all value honest, direct, insightful feedback, yet it is frankly quite painful to be "dissed" in public. "Public" includes an open internet forum such as this one where we all use our real names.

There are a few cherished artists (not necessarily on this Forum) who I can count on to tell me exactly what's gone wrong and where in my work. They can be blunt - very! - but they don't go public with harsh comments. (Incidentally, the worst kind of artist "friend" you can have does exactly the opposite: says nice things to your face but trashes you publicly... as if you won't find out about it. This is an ugly fact of life in the art world.)

I strongly suggest that anybody wanting a serious critique should do some private emailing to an artist whose work you admire, or whose comments are sensitive, accurate and insightful. This Forum contains plenty of those artists. People will be more honest in their critique if they know they won't embarrass you publicly. (And if you can't be criticized privately, you have to question whether you seriously want to improve.) I, for one, am always very flattered when someone wants my help with his work. And I've done my share of emailing around for private advice.

Jeff and Minh, you are two very funny guys.

Beth, I have never before in my life been called 'vivacious'! Must be the photo.

Best wishes,
Linda

Linda,

I can appreciate your thoughts and feelings on this. However, we tend to discourage too many private emailings.

First of all, one of the main reaons for having a Critiques section is so all artists can learn from the critique. To have the critique occur privately defeats that purpose.

The other issue is that there are many more members who want critiques than professionals who are qualified to give a critique. We have had the situation where these pros have become very overloaded with requests of various types from the Forum members. Usually when a pro feels they have something worthwhile to contribute and feel they can be helpful to a request for critique, they will do so.

I'm thinking the better approach is to allow a pro to contact an artist privately if they'd like to do so. I'm not saying no one can contact a pro, so for those reading, please don't interpret in this way. But, I don't want to encourage private critiques as a standard thing. If anything, it should be the exception or after a member has been here for a while and developed some kind of relationship with one or more of the pros.

Hi Cynthia,

I see your point. However, if I were a pro who was overloaded with email requests, I just wouldn't answer them, or I'd answer them with the response that I don't have time to do private email critiques.

It takes years for an artist to go from being a pithed frog to a tough old shrew in the face of indifference or criticism. I am just pointing out that it's harder to undergo this process in public rather than in a relatively private venue, as in a conversation with your crusty art teacher. Ultimately, the people who persevere are those who make art because they have to.

Best regards,
Linda