Are we painters or photographers?

[Timothy C. Tyler]

Yesterday, I saw the Eakins painting of the "ole boys at the swimming hole" that was one of those featured on one of ARC's Eakins' pages. I personally think the flaws of painting from weak photos are very obvious here. There are several places where you can tell he didn't have good info and just faked it -"blurred and blended" and hoped no one would notice. This was once one of my favorite paintings. Our goals and appreciations change over time.

[Timothy C. Tyler]

Here's that work. Art, like baseball, has no secrets. All that's been done is ours to study and learn from.

[Steven Sweeney]

There would be no profit (for me or anyone else) in my wading too far into the whirlpool of the Eakins debate, but I can't help but note that this reproduction seems to be -- to say the least -- quite bad, strangely overbrightened and "yellowed", as if worked over in Photoshop. The posted version isn't true, even without having seen the original, because there are other publications with better production values. It's hard to know what could be forcefully argued on the basis of this "clip" from somewhere. I hope ARC's repro is better.

I have with me a copy of Robert Hughes' "American Visions", which happens to include quite a good (much sharper, at least) reproduction of "Swimming (The Swimming Hole)". Having spent more time than I really cared to, doing life drawings and paintings from nude models, I find very little "faked blurring and blending" in what I'm seeing here. Indeed, most of the anatomical forms are extremely well rendered, not surprising, given Eakins' three-year stint at Gerome's atelier. Sure, the diver's a bit dodgy -- probably an antsy model who couldn't hold that pose -- but five out of six (and a pond pooch to boot [hard to see in this approximation] isn't a bad score.

Hughes, noting the photographic basis for the figures, writes of the painting: "[I]t actually tries to outdo photography's grasp of the instant: the arms and head of the youth diving into the water have thrown up a spray no camera available in 1883 could record."

Hughes also quotes Walt Whitman, whose portrait Eakins had painted: "How few like it. It is likely to be only the unusual person who can enjoy such a picture -- one who can weigh and measure it according to his own philosophy. Eakins would not be appreciated by the artists, so-called . . ."

[Steven Sweeney]

As a waterman as well as a painter, I would be remiss not to convey gratitude for the introduction to Eakins. I've been viewing his sculling and sailing paintings -- magnificent!

(Admittedly, I also always read all selections from banned-book lists.)

[Leslie Ficcaglia]

It was the Eakins "Swimming Hole" painting that I was referring to in my earlier post. We had the opportunity to see the wonderful Eakins exhibit recently when it appeared in Philadelphia, and that painting was included. The image that Tim included doesn't hold a candle to it and I also can't see the fakery he refers to. The exhibit also featured many of Eakins' photographs of people in the nude and it was obvious that he studied the human figure extensively. That study is evident in paintings such as this one.

[Timothy C. Tyler]

Sleeping in a garage doesn't make you a car. I'm never moved by the fact that anyone studied with anyone if the student's work doesn't reflect that superior influence.

I thought the color of the work had bad color too(when viewed in person)...same remarks as you. Probably should have made color sketches from life. The compostion is one of , "Oh what can I put there to fill the void?" type composition. The boring block of landscape on the far right is regrettable. Most of the faces are dark smears (see the red-head).

Ole Walt , I'm sure, liked the subject matter.

Not all work by even great artists is great. It's Ok not to love everything these artists made. Here's a work done from life that has an awesome composition (in my humble opinion)

[Steven Sweeney]

Ole Walt , I'm sure, liked the subject matter.

Hmmm, interesting, revealing comment . . . perhaps closer to the heart of the real objection to Eakins. Not being a Whitman scholar, I wouldn't know if the innuendo is based on fact. But in any event, Whitman was talking about his own portrait, not about the "Swimming Hole" painting.

I haven't had the pleasure of seeing the original painting. As I said, I had two reproductions side by side, and there was such a contrast between them that they might have been from different paintings. I don't think the better one was manipulated to make it appear that the work was competently executed.

It's unfortunate that a once "favorite" painting can no longer be enjoyed because of intervening education.

By the way, I slept in the garage one night, hoping to become a Porsche, but I turned out to be an SUV. Not very pretty, but useful in deep snow and on steep grades.

[Elizabeth Schott]

My this has been a long roller coaster thread - but I must say to learn Steven awoke as a SUV instead of a Porsche made it certainly worth it!

I loved the 5 years I spent drawing from life and still life, but now unless I can pin down a family member or friend - with whom a bottle of wine will be consumed, leading to a much looser drawing style - I don't get to draw live.

So it is important to me to get a good reference photo, but not a perfect one, as to the fact I don't want to invest in the equipment and become a portrait photographer. I think if an artist has received a foundation for drawing from life it is helpful and obvious. To make the best of a lesser than great situation, I like to have the children in my studio for the first day, notes and photos and getting to know their personality. Then on the finishing day to look at the areas my photo has not given me.

Just a point to ponder...

If cameras were available during the Renaissance, do you think the old masters would have incorporated them into their tool box? Would we then look at this subject as a progression in technology? I do remember when Microsoft Word came out and offices everywhere started to make their secretaries typesetters and graphic designers. Yet, without a good design background all the best tools in the world will not help!

And you know Steven, I keep waking up in the garage as a dang Mini Van. How do I get to be an SUV?

[Mari DeRuntz]

Sleeping in a garage doesn't make you a car.

Oh my gosh, Tim, of course I'm in Florida and a big election is right around the corner, but I swear that was right from the mouth of Ross Perot. May I use that one at work?

[Michael Georges]

If cameras were available during the Renaissance, do you think the old masters would have incorporated them into their tool box?

Yes, absolutely. But, like we all ultimately should and IMO, must do, they would have also realized they needed the experience of painting and drawing from life in order to really excell. Life is a journey, so is art. We must grow.