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Old 03-28-2007, 08:12 AM   #21
Adriano Maggi Adriano Maggi is offline
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Dear Enzie
I'll post a little painting I did this morning to show you the technique.
Adriano
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:43 AM   #22
Enzie Shahmiri Enzie Shahmiri is offline
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Dear Adriano,

"Pittura meraviglioso"! Grazie molto...
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Old 03-28-2007, 01:51 PM   #23
Adriano Maggi Adriano Maggi is offline
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I just did it to let you notice how much it resembles a gouache or even a pastel.
Adri
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Old 03-31-2007, 10:07 AM   #24
Gary Hoff Gary Hoff is offline
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I make no claims to expertise, but a couple of thoughts occurred to me while reading the thread.

First, inks used on paper are often oil-based--linseed oil sometimes, I think--and don't rot the paper. Maybe using oil paint on pulpy subtrates like newsprint isn't such a good idea, but high-quality papers aren't likely to deteriorate all that much, so far as I know, Mayer notwithstanding.

And second, shellad is probably a fine primer. But why bother with it? Acrylic "gesso" (whiting in an acrylic vehicle, which isn't real gesso) is pretty flexible and can be used profitably as a primer for paper, is easily available, requires no mixing, and is probably cheaper than shellac, too.

Again, I'm not an expert, but I've used oil paint on paper for years for sketches and studies.
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Old 03-31-2007, 11:29 AM   #25
David Clemons David Clemons is offline
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Interesting points, Gary. I have some comments on them.

As far as oil-based inks, iron gall ink when used in early printing was combined with linseed oil and resins. Gutenberg, for example, used boiled linseed and walnut oils as well as turpentine and resins. I have no idea how the papers were treated, however. It was most likely made from rags, though, since wood pulp paper wasn't used until early 1800s. Some inks, particularly "India," are made from carbonized (burnt) vegetable oils. Some also used fish oil, "lamp" oil (mineral,) and/or gelatin. The amount of oil required in those situations is very small. Most printing inks these days are oil based, but I'm pretty sure it's soya oil, not linseed.

As for acrylics, there are several reasons I don't use acrylic primers or mediums on paper. I reason if I'm going to coat the surface with a primer, it might as well be on canvas or wood. A primer would elliminate any benefit paper would offer me, except for maybe being cheap. Oils don't adhere as well to acrylics as they would to gelatin or shellac. The acrylic polymer also shrinks as it dries, which can cause problems with lighter weight papers, and cause even heavy weight paper to bend. You could weaken it by diluting it with water, but that would introduce buckling problems. Shellac doesn't shrink or use water, and offers better adhesion for oils. It's probably about the same price as acrylics, unless you get a cheaper brand, which I wouldn't like to use.

There are also synthetic papers that can be used for oils and don't require any preparations. The Yupo brand is just plastic film. Mylar will also work with oils. There's a brand from Multimedia Artboard that's paper mixed with epoxy, and works with oils extremely well.
http://yca.yupo.com/index.html
http://www.multimediaartboard.com/
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Old 03-31-2007, 02:17 PM   #26
Gary Hoff Gary Hoff is offline
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Hi, David. Yes, you're right about certain inks having only a small content of linseed or other oil, of course. Still, one wonders about their stability on paper--seems pretty good. Certainly the papers of old were rag-based rather than being composed of wood pulp, and the thought occurred to me that Yupo might be an excellent support for oils although I haven't tried it personally.

As to priming the paper with acrylic "gesso," (as you know) it's got more tooth than acrylic paint owing to the high content of whiting. So oil paint sticks pretty well and is unlikely to delaminate. Your point about lower weight papers is of course well taken.

I got curious and went back to my old copy of Mayer after I posted. In my ancient edition, he said that 300 lb. watercolor paper was a pretty good support. He did write that oil works on paper hadn't survived more than 35 years (in his experience) without substantial conservation efforts. Yupo would prolly last a whole lot longer, I think.
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Old 03-31-2007, 06:13 PM   #27
David Clemons David Clemons is offline
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Yes, Gary, acrylic primer has more tooth from the inert solids it uses, such as marble dust, that gives it a porous quality. In fact, Golden Paints recommends that for oil painters who want to use their primer they first size the surface with acrylic medium, such as their GAC100, to resist the oil that would penetrate through the porous primer and possibly discolor the substrate.
http://www.goldenpaints.com/technica...ix_priming.php

I've tried Yupo, and it's okay, but a bit too "plasticy" for my taste. The Multimedia Artboard I like better, since it actually uses paper. It can be literally broken if you bend it too far, but it's otherwise quite sturdy. Even 300# paper can bend under the shrinking of acrylics, but it's possible to mount it afterwards and straighten it out.

Those Constable paintings I saw on paper didn't seem to have received any obvious signs of treatment, since it was rather thin paint directly on paper, with some unpainted areas. I doubt Constable mounted them himself, although that's possible. Most were glued to stretched canvas.

Recently, by the way, I saw an exhibit of 17th century paintings here in Austin, and there was one that read "oil on paper mounted to panel" from the early 1600s that surprised me. It seemed to be in excellent condition (considering its age,) although there was no exposed paper, and I'm sure it's received loving care over time.
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