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11-21-2002, 02:05 PM
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#21
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Juried Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Davis, CA
Posts: 144
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In dealing with tonal range as a means of modeling the form, we must keep in mind that in the actual painting, transitions are often more powerful when accomplished via hue variations.
In this case, the contrast seems appropriate as the cast shadows DO play a big part in the composition.
My concern is that reaching for a limited tonal range can become harder if one locks the tonal composition early in the game.
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11-21-2002, 07:30 PM
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#22
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FT Pro, Mem SOG,'08 Cert Excellence PSA, '02 Schroeder Portrait Award Copley Soc, '99 1st Place PSA, '98 Sp Recognition Washington Soc Portrait Artists, '97 1st Prize ASOPA, '97 Best Prtfolio ASOPA
Joined: Jun 2001
Location: Peterborough, NH
Posts: 1,114
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Deladier,
There are many ways to do an underpainting and you have described one that I am unfamiliar with. And all that you say may be true for some methods including the alla prima approach to painting.
Shadows are indeed a compositional element. And with the particular approach that I am trying to explain, the cast shadows within those shadows are subcompositional elements to be added into the upper layers.
Also, a narrow range of tones clearly defined in an underpainting will unify a composition. A broad range of value will oftentimes fragment a composition.
Underpainting is the most basic foundation for a painting, and as a foundation, it will not have all of the value range of a finished piece.
Underpainting is not supposed to deal with hue, chroma, or color, but is meant to be a solid foundation that forms the bed for it to lie on.
Oil paint is translucent -- not opaque as most imagine. The underpainting shows through the upper layers and will make a painting sing.
Have you been using an underpainting method in your work, Deladier? If so, I would love to see some of it in a new thread.
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11-21-2002, 08:07 PM
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#23
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Juried Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Davis, CA
Posts: 144
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Karin,
I can't say I've arrived at a method yet. I have not used underpainting in the paintings I have done so far. Merely because I am (maybe mistakenly) afraid that if I start learning with the aid of underpainting the work will be constrained by decisions made before I even knew what I was doing.
What I've been doing lately is to create a small scale study of the composition before I start the full size painting. I kept blowing it because I couldn't visualize the composition but would valiantly (foolishly) forge ahead hoping for the best. I will post in a new thread a 2-hour study I have just finished. Your input would be greatly appreciated.
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11-21-2002, 09:25 PM
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#24
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FT Pro, Mem SOG,'08 Cert Excellence PSA, '02 Schroeder Portrait Award Copley Soc, '99 1st Place PSA, '98 Sp Recognition Washington Soc Portrait Artists, '97 1st Prize ASOPA, '97 Best Prtfolio ASOPA
Joined: Jun 2001
Location: Peterborough, NH
Posts: 1,114
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Underpainting does indeed require one to think ahead and it resolves your composition early on. I feel that this is an advantage, but there are those who may find the method limits them. All points of view are certainly OK, as long as the result is a good painting.
I look forward to seeing your work, Deladier. Please send me a note when it is up, in case I miss it.
Thanks.
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11-22-2002, 12:45 PM
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#25
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Juried Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Manhattan, KS
Posts: 133
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Underpainting
O.K., jettisoned the last effort and started from scratch. I felt that in the last attempt I was trying to rectify mistakes after the paint had dried and this did not work. Lesson learnt - it is difficult to overpaint an underpainting. My suggestion is that if it doesn't work the first time, start again. This is a little smaller than the last (10" x 8"). My apologies for the quality of the picture - the paint is still wet otherwise I would have scanned it. Oh, I've got that old 'Mike McCarty Feeling'as I submit this one.
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11-22-2002, 01:00 PM
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#26
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PHOTOGRAPHY MODERATOR SOG Member '03 Finalist Taos SOPA '03 HonMen SoCal ASOPA '03 Finalist SoCal ASOPA '04 Finalist Taos SOPA
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,674
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Quote:
Oh, I've got that old 'Mike McCarty Feeling'
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Didn't Perry Como do that? Not to worry, you are in the very finest of hands.
__________________
Mike McCarty
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11-23-2002, 11:42 PM
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#27
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FT Pro, Mem SOG,'08 Cert Excellence PSA, '02 Schroeder Portrait Award Copley Soc, '99 1st Place PSA, '98 Sp Recognition Washington Soc Portrait Artists, '97 1st Prize ASOPA, '97 Best Prtfolio ASOPA
Joined: Jun 2001
Location: Peterborough, NH
Posts: 1,114
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Building the painting's foundation
OK, it's time to get radical. I took the liberty of altering your painting to show you the following:
Flatten your lights.
Flatten your shadows and lose some edges.
Ignore reflected light at this stage.
Massing areas of dark and light will help to establish a strong composition and help to unify your finished painting. This first stage can look very "poster-like." All the "painterly" stuff should be saved for the upper layers of color.
At this first stage, pay the utmost attention only to where and exactly how the light meets the shadow (halftone).
Each and every object in a painting has a light and shadow -- only these two extremes of value -- and the range in between where the two meet.
This is the stage where you make or break your composition because it is so easy to see mistakes in an "abstract" form. This abstraction is the solid base upon which you will build "reality."
Once the halftone (light meets shadow) is correct, let it dry and then you can begin to model the form and finish the underpainting with more detail.
Your mistake thus far has been to jump into detail too soon (i.e., eyes, highlights, accents and so on). The really hard work is the halftone.
Because I am not particularly good in Photoshop, I have been unable to show you here how exact this halftone needs to be. You must force yourself to eliminate the superficial details within light and shadow and concentrate on establishing this halftone first.
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11-24-2002, 12:31 AM
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#28
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Juried Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Manhattan, KS
Posts: 133
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Underpainting
Karin,
The light-bulb has just come on. To relate to another thread on this Forum, I think I have been using underpainting as though it was "sauce!" You are teaching me to get rid of the ketchup. I can exactly see where you are going with this now. Actually, I had a hint that I was going down the wrong path when I looked at some of your paintings (which are wonderful). I really want to thank you for all the effort that you have put into this thread. I am working on another portrait at the moment (not using underpainting) but I will try and get to this sometime this week (also to give you a break!). Once again, I will start with a new canvas, but, believe me, I am having fun with this. I am learning more from this Forum than I have in the last ten years. Have a great Thanksgiving.
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11-24-2002, 12:47 AM
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#29
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FT Pro, Mem SOG,'08 Cert Excellence PSA, '02 Schroeder Portrait Award Copley Soc, '99 1st Place PSA, '98 Sp Recognition Washington Soc Portrait Artists, '97 1st Prize ASOPA, '97 Best Prtfolio ASOPA
Joined: Jun 2001
Location: Peterborough, NH
Posts: 1,114
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I am so glad to see that you got it - whew! It has taken me a couple of days to figure out how to explain this and be as clear as possible. You have made it worth my efforts and now I have something else to celebrate this Thanksgiving.
Thanks,  and a happy Thanksgiving to you too Clive.
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11-24-2002, 12:39 PM
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#30
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Associate Member SoCal-ASOPA Founder FT Professional
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Laguna Hills, CA
Posts: 1,395
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Clive and Karin,
I have followed this thread with great interest and have been merrily printing away.
Clive, thank you for hanging in there and pushing your limits. From your quest of knowledge, we finally have a wonderfully detailed visual account of what makes Karin
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