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Old 03-24-2007, 09:13 PM   #11
Mary Jane Ansell Mary Jane Ansell is offline
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Enzie,

I am ceratinly aware of paintings done in this method surviving pretty well today having been done 60 - 80 years ago. But it's generally accepted that all oils on paper are really to be considered pretty temporary, in the great scheme of things. Ralph Mayer (The Artist's Handbook) reckons on oil works on paper (he doesnt mention shellac primed paper though) as having somewhere between 35 and 200 years of good condition depending on their weight and rag content.

The shellac may improve that lifespan a little, as it protects the paper somewhat from being deteriorated by the paint.

Thomasin

As the shellac may make the paper more brittle and prone to cracking, I would think glazing would be best if you want to preserve it as long as possible, but it's probably wise to say again, if you are aiming for real longevity it's always going to be best to stick to a panel or a canvas.
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Old 03-25-2007, 10:51 AM   #12
David Clemons David Clemons is offline
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Paper will hold up fine if it's a high pecentage of rag composition (cotton or linen) rather than wood pulp, and is properly sized. No glass is required in that case. I've seen oils on paper by Constable that are over 100 years old and in excellent shape. They were mounted to either wood panel or canvas.

Shellac flakes can be found in a "white" or "clear" variety, but is still a slight amber in color. Look for the de-waxed/wax-free type. Most pigment sellers carry it, or fine furniture/woodworking places. The flakes are diluted in denatured alchol. Please avoid the pre-mixed liquid in cans (Zinsser) as it has additives to extend its shelf life (mixed shellac will spoil like RSG) which you don't need.
Here's a good US supplier who also carries a nice selection of resins:
http://www.woodfinishingenterprises.com/varnish.html#
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Old 03-25-2007, 12:53 PM   #13
Enzie Shahmiri Enzie Shahmiri is offline
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Mary, I have seen these old works on paper as well and always wondered how it is they didn't deteriorate. You solved a little puzzle

This sounds like a fun thing to experiment with and I will give it a try. David, thanks for the link!
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Old 03-25-2007, 05:03 PM   #14
David Clemons David Clemons is offline
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You're welcome Enzie.

I probably shouldn't have used the term "spoil" since what it does is more like deteriorate when left in solution too long. I usually mix up about a pint at a time and use it within a few months. The dry flakes last indefintely as far as I know.

I imagine the Constables I saw were sized with gelatin. Many areas of the paper were left unpainted, but the paper was a bright white.
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Old 03-26-2007, 12:01 PM   #15
Enzie Shahmiri Enzie Shahmiri is offline
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David,

I looked at the site you recommended and I am thinking of ordering a 4 oz bottle of DEWAXED GOLDEN ORANGE SHELLAC

Is this the right one or do you recommend something else?
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Old 03-26-2007, 01:55 PM   #16
Adriano Maggi Adriano Maggi is offline
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This sounds like a fun thing to experiment with and I will give it a try. David, thanks for the link![/QUOTE]

Dear Enzie,
I suggest you to experiment oil painting on paper before using shellac.
Because the beauty of this effect depends on the drying up the paper does. If you look of the hair of the Klimt' s painting , you can see the transparence , but if you impermeabilize the surface you wouldn't get such effect.
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Old 03-26-2007, 02:54 PM   #17
David Clemons David Clemons is offline
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Enzie, the type I bought last time was "extra light." I expect golden orange would be more staining, but you might like that.

Adriano, I wouldn't want my paper surface soaking up the oil, but I have used spare paper on occasion to do that somewhat, and give me a more dry texture as I apply the paint.
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Old 03-26-2007, 05:44 PM   #18
Sharon Knettell Sharon Knettell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriano Maggi
Hi Rebecca
Many painters have been painting on cardboard in the past.
The effect is quite similar you have when you use pastel.
Look at this beautiful Klimt's painting!
Ciao
Adriano
Yes they have, but paintings such as those are probably keeping conservators in full employ.

Go on to conservators sites and see the lengths they go to save paintings from the past, especially mid-century paintings when all knowledge of good craftsmanship was lost. Also notice the cartwheels they do trying to save works on paper.

I don't have any particular sites, because I was reading them for general information.

I use a canvas paper for quick color studies. There are quite a few brands out there.
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Old 03-27-2007, 09:35 AM   #19
Adriano Maggi Adriano Maggi is offline
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[Hi Sharon
I wouldn't be so worried to preserve a painting forever,as much as I would be in being able to render the delicacy of such particular technique.
Adriano
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Old 03-27-2007, 12:10 PM   #20
Enzie Shahmiri Enzie Shahmiri is offline
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Thanks David!

Adriano, I think Sharon makes a good point as far as the conservation goes. I don't think it's wise to invest too much time on a completed painting on something that is not as durable as a canvas or a panel.

I browse a lot through auction catalogs and that is where I have mainly seen a lot of the studies on paper. They seem in good shape, yet I have not seen them in person. The ones that I saw in the museum look great, but then again, god only knows what conservators had to go through to get them in that shape. I am reminded of the drawings and paintings on paper seen in the flea markets and antique shops of Paris doted with brown spots, haze and tears.That's what works on paper usually tend to look like before conservators do their magic.

I am considering giving this a try, since I already have this nice paper which is just lying around and not being used. For my purpose of quick studies for drapery, figure composition and maybe even color studies, longevity is not a concern.
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