Sargent's Lady Agnew

[Karin Wells]

Another thought. Copying the portrait of Lady Agnew is a subject of a "how to" video I used to own. It was by a "famous "portrait artist...I forget who. Anyhow, he demonstrated how he did the copy a la prima. I thought the result was not at all successful. His copy barely resembled the Sargent painting he was trying to copy.

Dang. I wish I still had that video.

[Peggy Baumgaertner]

Joan,

So as not confuse you further, I want to clarify something. After spending some time studying grisaille with Karin Wells in New Hampshire, one thing became clear. Painting in grisaille is exactly the opposite as painting alla prima. They are so far opposite that they become both sides of the same coin. (I remember telling Karin this on a park bench after the workshop ended...). The advise I gave you about establishing your value immediately was if you are painting alla prima. That advise was for your daughter Megan's portrait. In the grisaille painting of Lady Agnew, Karin is the master and I humbly bow to her expertise.

Peggy
.

[Karin Wells]

Thanks Peggy - you really said it well. Grisaille really is the opposite of an a la prima in many ways. It gets even more confusing when an artist combines the two methods.

That is, Sargent oftentimes (not always!) did an underpainting and then did an a la prima in selected areas on top. Because of this, he is tough to copy unless you know and can apply both methods of painting.

Lady Agnew is a lovely painting but I'd be surprised if more than a handful of people could successfully copy it.

[Joan Breckwoldt]

I suppose I'm feeling a bit better since the painting I chose to copy is so hard that it can hardly be done succesfully by anyone. But it also feels like somewhat of a wrong step in this learning process. That's one thing about art, there isn't a list of things to do and at the end you're an artist. I know that.

I like painting alla prima but am intrigued by the grisaille method and like the way those results look. All I can do is learn that and then see which method works best for me. I do feel like I'm back in school again, trying to figure this out.

I have decided to get a better example of an old master's grisaille to copy. And at the same time work on painting from photos of my kids, using the grisaille method.

I will put more detail in the face of 'Lady Agnew' and continue with glazes, I'll learn a lot I'm sure.

Thank you both Peggy and Karin for your help, any suggestions for steps I should be taking will be welcomed.

Thanks,
Joan

[Karin Wells]

Up until the 1800's or so, many portrait painters of the old school traditions underpainted the face and hands of the sitter and then painted the rest of the picture a la prima.

Currently I am useing a traditional grisaille on the face and hands but use a shortcut method of underpainting on the rest that approaches (but isn't really) a la prima.

I believe that there are no rigid "rights or wrongs" in methods of painting as long as the result looks like you want it to look.

A la prima is much faster than grisaille and quite frankly, if I knew how to make that look good, I'd be doing it.

I have a lot of paintings in me and I can't possibly live long enough to paint them all. I prefer to make things happen as fast as possible as I am an impatient person!

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Thank you Karin for your reply, I'm going to go ahead and practice some glazing on the copy of 'Lady Agnew' that I started, just to see how it goes. So should I leave it as is and try to get darker shadows with the glazes? I feel I need to focus on making things appear more 3-D.

I now understand some of the differences between a la prima painting and grisaille painting (thanks Peggy) that I hadn't even thought about before. I just need to experiment with both methods to see which way will work best for me. I so often feel like I'm back at square one learning a new this or that, always new methods. I suppose I am making strides to becoming a "portrait artist" but most of the time it feels like I am stuck at the starting gate. Not to imply it's some kind of race.

I will look into Vermeer for copying. I have a book on Vermeer that's about 300 pages thick explaining lots of detail about his paintings, the layers, etc.

Joan

[Karin Wells]

So should I leave it as is and try to get darker shadows with the glazes?

Yes.

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Here is where my copy of Sargent's 'Lady Agnew' is, the original by Sargent can be seen under the post titled 'attachment'.

I absolutely love this way of paining, with the glazes! This is 2 thin glazes of burnt umber. Then a layer of 'flesh tone' which I mixed from white, raw sienna and burnt umber plus Liquin. While that was wet I added some alizaron crimson (I would have used Indian Red but don't have any yet).

Now I feel like I need to redefine the nose, it looks like I'm seeing the nose through a wash, which I am. I like the hazy look of it, no harsh lines, but I feel like it looks unfinished. Maybe because I ended up using a bit of red mixed in almost everywhere but the nose and somehow the nose now looks . . . unfinished. I also feel like I need stronger shadows/color under the chin.

I have not gone in and painted the eyebrows or eyes yet, I realize they look washed-out.

Any direction and/or critiques would be welcome.

Thank you,
Joan

[Joan Breckwoldt]

The resolution doesn't look so good, I can almost see 'grids' of color, it doesn't look like that in real life. I'll try to post a close-up of the face and see if I can get a better representation.

Joan

[Joan Breckwoldt]

I have posted a close-up of the face, it's under 'resolution. I meant to post it in this same thread . . .

Joan