College classes nowadays - Page 2

Matthew Severson · 01-13-2005, 11:24 PM

I was completely disappointed when I enrolled in college last fall. My drawing class was in a messy lab in the basement of the college, and the room was entirely lit with fluorescent overhead lighting. After each session the teacher would have us post up our art work and critique each other's work. However, we were told to only make positive comments... "Define critique for me?"
I hope to transfer to the Art Academy of Chicago in about a year, so hopefully things will get better!

Matthew

October Reader · 01-13-2005, 11:24 PM

Just a suggestion Kim, since you obviously have so much more knowledge, and it seems to me the particular group of students you described here definitely can benefit from it. And, from my impression of your posts here on this forum, I assume you like sharing and coaching, why not try a lecturer post or the like there. Your husband can probably get you connected through the right channel.

A regular paycheck will more likely than not fuel your passion for more enjoyable work and less worry over practical issues. Not to mention avoiding headaches over how to please exceedingly difficult clients.

Rob Sullivan · 02-21-2005, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvin Mattelson

It doesn't have to be this way.

It's not this way all the time, but more often than not.

I got lucky (!) in finding Marvin just when I needed traditional guidance in technique. I didn't know how lucky then, but I do now. Not much has changed in BFA programs countrywide.

Besides putting what I'd learned into my own work with some degree of success, the most obvious way to thank Marvin and all those who've passed down what is, at least, a 600-year-old tradition, is to continue passing it down.

Although the bulk of my teaching is in Continuing Ed programs, I have "infiltrated" the BFA program at a New Hampshire art school. It's great, but I am teaching Illustration 1 (and 2 next semester). A great deal of what the students are now asking me have so much to do with traditional drawing and painting techniques. The curriculum being what it is, I don't have the proper time to really teach these things extensively. I'm doing what I can, but what would make better sense would be my teaching representational drawing and painting at the Foundation level, so those tools may be applied to the work in Illustration. But, there's a problem with that - and this is part of why things are still "that way," as Marvin puts it.

I will probably never be allowed to teach drawing or painting at the BFA level, because I do not have an MFA. My professional experience, my successes in teaching, my very ability to get solid results are nullified by my lack of a $30,000 piece of paper. It literally has nothing to do with art - it's the requirement as laid down by a Board of Directors that makes this so.

I'm not going back to school just to have this piece of paper. Were I to go back into the classroom, I would want to be under the direction of a real master, to make it worth my while. There are no MFA programs in this part of the country with that sort of faculty (are there anywhere?). In fact, the teachers in most MFA programs that I've researched are guilty of even more sloth than the lousy BFA teachers. "Sanctity of expression must be nurtured over the confinement of content.." so sayeth one vacuous blurb from an MFA brochure. I'm not about to give any money toward that.

So, tradition gets relegated to the Continuing Ed level. I don't care so much about salary or tenure or any of that stuff - I just want to get these kids while they're hungry for it. Some of them truly are, I've seen it. It's disappointing... but I'll keep the traditions alive wherever they stick me.

Michele Rushworth · 02-21-2005, 03:56 PM

Quote:

I will probably never be allowed to teach drawing or painting at the BFA level, because I do not have an MFA. My professional experience, my successes in teaching, my very ability to get solid results are nullified by my lack of a $30,000 piece of paper. It literally has nothing to do with art - it's the requirement as laid down by a Board of Directors that makes this so.

I've run into exactly the same thing. Academia respects only academic credentials. Gotta set aside some jobs for all those MFA grads who can't draw, I guess!

Julie Gerleman · 02-21-2005, 07:36 PM

Rob and all...

I checked out the Art Renewal Center's recommendations on art schools and this one was on their 'approved' list: the Laguna College or Art and Design. Looks pretty good actually, and they're starting an MFA program I'm sorely tempted to check out...

I'm not sure the process by which the ARC 'approves' the schools and ateliers it does, but I've checked out some of the ones they do and I've been pretty impressed.

Rob Sullivan · 02-21-2005, 09:10 PM

Julie-

I appreciate your effort in checking that out and posting the link. I'd say 90% of the schools/ateliers/classes posted at ARC are not only legit, but totally worthwhile. Yes, it's true, Laguna seems to be the only one with an MFA program. But, well - it's in Laguna Beach. I think I live as far from there as one can get within the contiguous 48 states. I have a wife and 2 kids who may not approve of such a choice of schools.

If you don't necessarily plan on teaching, don't go for any degree program. Water Street is incredible - I've visited there. The stuff they had thrown on the floor was better than anything I'd seen in a long time. The stuff hanging or in progress... amazing. Shanks' Incamminati would be heaven to me. Take a closer look at that site.

Kimber Scott · 02-22-2005, 01:07 AM

This has to be the most serendipitous thread I've come upon in a long time. I too am in college. I spent three years at a local community college which, by the grace of God, had a wonderful teacher who actually taught me a few things. The man did not rest. He went around to every easel over and over saying things like, "When one plane comes in front of another you've got to lower the key and feather the edge." "Where planes change direction you can get away with murder." "Lighter! Brighter!" "Stand back here and look at that monster you've created." Ok, that one hurt, but I'd much rather have heard that than what I'm hearing now at the university which is NOTHING!

I am frustrated to the point of tears most days. In fact, that's why a came on the board tonight hoping I could find someone to commiserate with. I'm taking "19th Century French Art and Culture" and just looking at David's and Ingres' work makes me want to explode. Oh, and Gericault's portraits of the insane and... Why can't I learn to do that? Why am I spending all this time and money? When I ask how to do something the answer I get now is, "Well... I could tell you how to do it, but then I would just be telling you how to do it. You've got to figure it out for yourself." GAWD! I can't take it. Especially when that phrase follows a fifteen minute discourse on how I keep having the same problems painting after painting.

I had one professor last semester in life drawing who when I asked him why don't they offer any classical training at the university he said, "Because none of the instructors know how to do it." I appreciate his honesty.

Anyway, I quit school semester before last in utter despair. But, after realizing how close I was to a degree and how much time, money and effort I'd already put into it I went back. (Besides, I really like art history class.) I graduate next year and I can't wait to actually have time to LEARN HOW TO PAINT!

Hopefully, I'll get into some workshops out at Scottsdale Artist's School. I tried to get into William Whitaker's class, but it was full. Maybe, next time.

That Laguna College looks really interesting. This thread may be even more serendipitous than I thought!

Julie Gerleman · 02-22-2005, 01:26 AM

I quit school 6 years ago with 8 classes to finish my BFA. Mostlly because I was disgusted by the lack of teaching you describe so well. Big BIG mistake. Last year when I applied for this really cool job I wanted I got a reply from the HR person which had a message from the hiring supervisor that no doubt they wish they'd deleted before sending to me - that I was automatically disqualified because I had no degree. Interesting experience and such, but a no go. Ouch. It made me wonder how many other times my resume ended up in the can without so much as a second glance. And it made me want to fix that lack of a degree. Bad.

Now I'm finishing up too, Kimber, and all I can say is, good for you for gritting your teeth and just going for it. I've got this semester, a summer course online and a few courses next semester and I'll be done with it. Only problem is, I'm trying to finish up in another state, going to another university, by transferring all of my credits down to my original school. I'm going to have to take my final BFA Special Topics seminar long distance and I'm still not sure how that's even going to work. But I'll get it done somehow.

I think if I had to do this all over again I'd get a degree in marketing or some such, taking as many elective art credits as my schedule would allow, then I'd go to a good school once I had my degree (and a good job....)

Good luck in school, pretty soon you'll be looking back on this and laughing.

Kimber Scott · 02-22-2005, 01:51 AM

I don't know if I'll be laughing, but I know I need to finish. I'm not sure why, but I do. I don't want a "real" job, I just want to paint. (As I sit here sore and tired after painting on a 9' x 33' mural all day, wondering how I have the gall to seperate painting from a "real" job.) Anyway, it's funny, I get this little audience when I'm painting and you'd be surprised at how many of them want to know where I got my degree! We're all brainwashed.

Good luck to you!

Michele Rushworth · 02-22-2005, 11:13 AM

Quote:

I think if I had to do this all over again I'd get a degree in marketing or some such, taking as many elective art credits as my schedule would allow, then I'd go to a good school once I had my degree.

Sounds like a great idea. The marketing will help you become a successful artist far more than yet another philosopical/policital/theoretical discourse from an art professor who doesn't know how to draw or paint.