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Old 11-10-2003, 01:38 AM   #11
Marvin Mattelson Marvin Mattelson is offline
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There is a secret, but I'm not tellin'




Geniuses are thus designated, not because they can successfully negotiate the intricacies, but because they can identify the obvious. We scratch our heads when describing the great breakthroughs in history, wondering that if the answer was so obvious why everyone overlooked it.

To the painter, developing and harnessing a real understanding of visual perception is the key to creating masterful paintings.

The secret is that every successful realistic painting is essentially a big lie: the viewer is deceived into believing that a two dimensional surface represents three dimensional space.

This premise is so obvious that the vast majority of artists simply gloss over it looking for the big truths, genuine tricks or alchemistic secrets.

Anyone looking to "copy nature" is heading the wrong way down a one way street, a falsehood perpetuated by far too many.

The ability to incorporate ones understanding of visual spacial phenomena with the accuracy of one's perceptual acuity distinguishes great artists. They were just flat out smarter about painting.

Looking to imitate the color schemes or value structure of the masters is missing the point. You've gotta get into their heads and think like they did. Color schemes and value structure will automatically conform to successful models because the truth is the truth.

Anyone looking at the work of Bouguereau should see a shining example of true genius at work. Although working in a seemingly limited oeuvre, he was able to reinvent his solutions with infinite variety and great vitality. Best of all he never imitated himself.
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Old 11-10-2003, 10:17 PM   #12
Timothy C. Tyler Timothy C. Tyler is offline
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Minds

The minds of the really great painters I've known seem to certainly understand deeply the craft of painting. I'm always impressed with how many styles can fit within our collective opinions of what constitutes great art.
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Old 11-11-2003, 07:32 PM   #13
Enzie Shahmiri Enzie Shahmiri is offline
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Whether artists copy works of those they admire, or search for the
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Old 11-11-2003, 11:18 PM   #14
Steven Sweeney Steven Sweeney is offline
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Browsing through an old issue of the Classical Realism Journal, I read a passage that brought this thread to mind. Any question that Wisconsin artist Jeff Larson, a graduate of Atelier Lack in Minneapolis, is qualified to comment will be quickly dispelled by a look at his website.

For whatever value they may have here for Forum members, these remarks were made in the course of a feature article about Larson
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Old 11-12-2003, 10:21 AM   #15
Tom Edgerton Tom Edgerton is offline
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Thanks, Steven.

As we Quakers say, "This Friend speaks my mind."

I don't believe there is any secret past the application of daily diligence and hard work directed at improving. The knowledge is certainly out there, available to anyone who wants to find and apply it. Innate or inborn "genius" is the least of it, in my opinion.

Best--TE
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Old 12-17-2003, 08:01 PM   #16
Celeste McCall Celeste McCall is offline
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Dear All,

I found a very good website to discuss the issue of why our eyes see the way that they do and how artists can (I really hate to say exploit this because that sounds so crass) exploit this in improving their paintings. Most of you already do this so it's probably not a new thing to any of you. Most of you are already Master Artists.

Here it is:

http://webexhibits.org/colorart/anuszkiewicz.html

So this means, to me, that it is the ability of the painting or the colors of the painting or the use of similar values to grab our eyes by 'moving'. Didn't Van Gogh say that is why he placed complements next to each other? So that the colors would indeed vibrate?

It may not be a secret, but it seems to be a really interesting theory. True or False? I sure don't know the answer to that. I'm just trying to improve my paintings.

And I really admire all of the SOG artist's paintings.
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Old 12-17-2003, 08:34 PM   #17
Timothy C. Tyler Timothy C. Tyler is offline
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Theory and practice

Thanks, I'll check out the site. I like those things done well. As to the broken colors next to each other idea, here's been my take on it. A lot of artists that talk about this but really never display it in their work. Fechin, my hero spoke of this, yet of the numerous works that I have enjoyed in person for hours, I've seen little of this truly in his paint. It seems to be a great concept not much done.

One may argue that yellow paint next to red makes orange and at the smallest level-or taking this concept to a microscopic level why not buy orange paint? To appreciate this concept of two distinctly differing colors "vibrating" next to one another they must by difinition be visible to our naked eye (as separte colors) and then one would assume the viewer must then determine that perfect viewing distance from which to consider the exciting visual occurance as the vibration happens. It seems altogther probable that this should happen but my experience is that in truth, the paintings are little more than curiousities-pointillism being the perfect form of this.

I see Schmid do it nicely enough and I agree that is it possible. I simply have seen it done very rarely even by the greatest proponants of the concept. This Fechin below shows the effect (at least in person).
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Old 12-17-2003, 09:13 PM   #18
Celeste McCall Celeste McCall is offline
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Gosh Doggies, Tim, that is beautiful.

I think that the point that the website is making and that of Van Gogh is that he might paint the yellow/orange Chair (With Pipe) and then, right along the edge of the chair, he places a really clear thin line of blue. That made it vibrate yet in a controlled way.

In other words, it is the use of complimentary colors that are very near in value that is the key. I love the website because it has interactive examples of taking color out of a painting or adding more contrast to just one of the complimentary colors so that it shows that the effect would be lost if the near values were not maintained.

I found the above website today and I'm just really impressed with it. I think that it may be based on Margaret Livingston's theories. I just ordered her book from Amazon and I can't wait to receive it.

Also, the website is going to be invaluable to painters some day when they get it finished. See all of it at:

http://webexhibits.org/
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Old 12-31-2003, 02:04 AM   #19
Mary Reilly Mary Reilly is offline
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This has been an inspiring thread with some excellent points and suggestions. The "secret" seems to be a little of everything: mastering skills, learning one's craft, knowing how to use color, etc. I agree with Tom Edgerton that
"The knowledge is certainly out there, available to anyone who wants to find and apply it."

I have an wonderful little motivational book that I have read more than a few times over the years. It is a small 92-page paperback that is not easily found but I highly recommend it. "The Pursuit of Excellence" by Ted W. Engstrom. Published by Zondervan Publishing House.

Although it is written from a Christian perspective, this book has principles of excellence that would benefit people from all belief systems and all endeavors whether art, politics, or any number of other life choices.

Of course we have to know our craft to be able to excel, but what to do with that knowledge is quite often the key. "The Pursuit of Excellence" gives some really practical advice to motivate people forward in their life pursuit.

Mary
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Old 12-31-2003, 10:26 AM   #20
Celeste McCall Celeste McCall is offline
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Thanks Mary,
I have to go check it out! Sound like something that I would love to read.
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