Of donkeys and lost boys - Page 2

Leslie Ficcaglia · 01-13-2003, 01:06 PM

Quote:

The "donkeys and lost boys" in question were not complaining about critiques, but expressing a desire for more tough love. I only regret that so much energy has gone into this thread, taking time away from critiques for those who could benefit from them.

Jeff, my response was to emphasize that different personalities can benefit from different types of critiques. I've heard many horror stories about people who left art early and didn't return until life and years had given them the confidence to try again - all because of someone who was a harsh critic and who made them believe that their work was no good. These were people who often became quite successful later on and who demonstrated a true mastery of art; what a shame that they were discouraged from practicing it for so long. Since we don't know each other's needs and personalities I always try to err on the side of kindness.

So no, I don't think we're all saying the same thing, and for what it's worth, I'm also still critiquing as well as commenting here. We all find the time to respond to what grabs us. Not to worry!

Elizabeth Schott · 01-13-2003, 01:24 PM

I think this thread is doing what I would hope it would do, but I think I should explain my analogy to "Donkey

Michele Rushworth · 01-13-2003, 01:50 PM

I think we're all in agreement that honest critiques are essential, and when they are delivered with tact and thoughtfulness those critiques are more likely to be well received, too.

I think the objection some have expressed is not with the critiques themselves but with the harsh way in which they have sometimes been delivered by instructors in the past.

Carolyn Ortiz · 01-13-2003, 03:07 PM

Ah yes, a lost girl, that's me happily in most parts of my life. But I can see where it can be a problem in the art world. I read here, just about every day and try to soak it all in. And my next post of work will not be done until I feel I have really executed everything I have learned through all the threads.

I'm sure it must be extremely frustrating for people who take their time to make thoughtful critiques, to see the advice not taken. But don't worry, there are a lot of us out here who are taking notes and applying them to our own work.

Steven,

I am curious about this, if you could elaborate that would be great.[QUOTE]And the

Minh Thong · 01-13-2003, 04:26 PM

Just for clarification ...

I welcome critiques, and the more honest, the better. I will never, ever take offense at advice, no matter how harshly it may come across. I am here to learn and personally I can't learn from a pat on the head. I'm probably not normal, but it's just not in my nature to seek encouragement or kudos. I'd prefer that something I post is dissected and 'shredded'. That's just how I'm wired.

In November I was able to show my first two oil portraits (copies) to a local professional, who promptly told me "You're getting a handle on color but you have no concept of the underlying structure of the head. You need to learn how to draw." Rather than try to explain that I'd only been painting for three months or that I'd never had instruction, I bought a book on anatomy and found a professional illustrator who was willing to teach drawing long distance (a most gracious gentleman).

Further, as some here will attest, I will NEVER waste the learning opportunity given when you take the time to make a suggestion. Since I started drawing a year ago I have always endeavored to put suggestions into practice as soon as possible. If it means erasing graphite or scraping paint ... so be it. I'm here to learn portraiture.

I'm still waiting expectantly for a spot to open up with one of the finest portrait artists on the East Coast. Until then, the Internet is all I have and I use it to the fullest.

Minh "Teacherless" Thong

Jeff Fuchs · 01-13-2003, 04:26 PM

In order to resolve this issue, I'm offering to become Minh Thong's teacher. His plea for critiques, and the ever present "Still Teacherless" tag on his posts cannot go ignored forever.

No, I may not be the most qualified teacher, but I've compiled a top ten list of the reasons I should be Minh Thong's art teacher:

10. I work cheap

9. He won

Minh Thong · 01-13-2003, 04:41 PM

I really do try not be a wise-acre here, unlike my often notorious silly self on other fora. But I just can't help it this time ...

10. Well, considering that I just took my third pay cut Friday at noon, and was told I will be out of a job completely in April ... the price is right!

9. You'd be suprised. I showed your work to the guy who gets ALL my paintings and he said he really liked a few of them. Then he pushed the button that compacts my pictures and drove off in his big truck. He wears a really cool uniform too, BTW.

8. And I'm very old. You'd probably do much better than you realize.

7. I like that idea. (I would like to say, however, that the gentleman I'm waiting on is clearly operating on a different level than many of the also-very-competent artists in my area. He's just UNBELIEVABLE, and well worth the patience on my part.)

6. Oddly enough my significant other had the same idea. I just finished the bathroom and she has a hallway lined up next.

5. But of course

4. Wow ... it's just now beginning to grow out after my last escape from BuddhaWorld, USA.

3. No comment

2. And I'll reciprocate.

1. How about meditation teacher? I'm MUCH better at that than painting portraits.

Thanks for the reply, Jeff, and I will in fact take you up on it. It has been my experience that fellow students often have much to contribute.

Minh "Now Taught By Jeff Fuchs" Thong

Elizabeth Schott · 01-13-2003, 05:11 PM

Not that Jeff wouldn't be the greatest teacher, Minh you should see if Tom Edgerton ever teaches in your area.

Minh Thong · 01-13-2003, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Minh you should see if Tom Edgerton ever teaches in your area.

Oddly enough, when I first started painting - having decided that I wanted to concentrate on portraiture - I searched thru all the artists listed within SOG to get an idea what real professional oil portraiture looked like. I already knew it didn't look like the 'portraits' I saw hanging in some of the local galleries (winking). And while ALL of the artists here are obviously polished and professional, paintings by one artist in particular really struck me personally as living, breathing representations of real people with all the concomitant human emotions. The work was, to me - and I realize this is subjective - just really something special. I later discovered not only that this artist also lived in Greensboro, but that he briefly occupied a studio space a block from my office and I had probably seen him there and not realized who he was.

Though I've been drawing and painting a very short time, in November I reached a point that I felt ready to approach a teacher and when I started searching I discovered that Mr. Edgerton does indeed teach. So, he is one of two local artists I have been pestering to accept me as a student, and indeed I have been able to speak with him recently about that very thing.

Currently, he is unable to take another student on, but graciously made a couple recommendations of teachers in the Raleigh area. As with most things in life "Good things come to those who wait". So rather than begin somewhere else, I have decided to just wait until Mr. Edgerton is able to accept another student. He is the artist I most want to study under and so I will wait patiently and pick up what I can, where I can.

And I'll also pick Jeff's brain from time-to-time as well.

Minh Thong

Jeff Fuchs · 01-13-2003, 06:42 PM

Maybe I haven't stated my case strongly enough. Did I mention I supply the pencils?

Seriously, when you get a teacher, I hope you share some of the lessons you learn along the way. In college, my fine art classes were all freshman/sophmore level. After that, I took mostly design classes, so I wouldn't mind the inside scoop on the advanced lessons.

Of course, like most college art programs these days, my school's fine art program didn't value basic skills. The senior shows all seemed to emphasize abstract work. The design program stressed hand skills and creative solutions, but we weren't doing portraits.

I just got Tony Ryder's book this weekend. I've read half of it, and I feel that his approach gives a very methodical process for capturing reality. I don't know if I'd spend 30 hours drawing a figure from life, like he does, though. On amazon.com, I saw some negative reviews, but I found that I can apply his methods pretty quickly. I did a quick study last night, and honed in on a likeness with greater predictability than I had in the past. Give it a look.