Fully realized

Mike McCarty · 02-12-2005, 10:33 AM

I wonder if I could get some help understanding a style of painting that I see and like, and to some extent have done myself. I've never been very good at artspeak. First of all I don't like to hear it. I don't like the fact that a painting must be explained, that I must not be able to "get it" without a hand out flyer.

My question is not so much about the above kind of art speak, but mostly about my own ignorance and desire to be able to communicate intelligently with the people that may view my paintings, or any other paintings.

It has to do with paintings that are not fully realized. They may have a high degree of finish in the upper three quarters of the painting but then tail off to bare canvas, or in a "vignette."

When an intelligent, albeit not in the arts, person says to you:

* when will you finish it?
* why have you already framed it?
* did you just get bored with it and quit?
* were you pressed to start another?
* I would want mine to be finished with paint everywhere.
* you would charge less for this, right?

I think people understand more easily when you do a "sketch" in the middle of the canvas, but the combination of highly finished, and unfinished seems to confuse people.

I'm pretty sure that this technique has hundred's of years of history, but I'm not strong on art history having never studied it academically. If you were standing with a person in front of a painting of this sort, and confronted with these questions, what would you say to educate them (and me)?

Allan Rahbek · 02-12-2005, 11:25 AM

Every picture is a section from life, so why not a section of a picture.?

People can be so tight. Nobody would ask a man "when are you finished" if he works on a factory. It would be more relevant to ask if he

Kimberly Dow · 02-12-2005, 04:28 PM

That's a tough one Mike. I don't know artspeak very well either.

I would assume (maybe incorrectly) that if they were asking those kinds of questions that they didnt care for that style. In that case, I might just answer that it is a particular style that you've found to be quite popular and enjoyable. And no, "I dont charge less as it takes quite a bit of skill to pull this off sucessfully." Of course, I don't spend a lot of time trying to educate people about art either, I'm not a natural salesperson. Once they've hired me I will, but not usually before unless it is some kind of opening and a specific question. But those questions sound so much like they are showing displeasure and I dont think you can talk someone into liking a style if they dont right away.

These do take extra skill to pull off - I dont think I have ever done one myself I liked.

Mike McCarty · 02-12-2005, 04:42 PM

I suppose it goes without saying that you wouldn't show up with a painting in this style without having done some education of the client before hand.

I would just like to be able to argue it's merit if I felt that a composition might benefit from such a technique. Just one of the drawbacks of being left in the woods as a child and being taught by a family of wolves.

Chris Saper · 02-12-2005, 07:44 PM

There's probably no more prolific (nor superior) vignette painter than Harley Brown.

I have done quite a few vignettes, and always include a couple in my portfolio, and ask potential clients to react to various pieces, so I can understand what appeals to them. About 80% of the pastel commissions I have done are vignettes, and probably about 20% of the oils. (No doubt for avariety of reasons...)

I actually feel it IS my job to educate clients insofar as different styles, artists, and prices. I need to know right away if they are looking for a painter like Dean Paules, who competently and meticulously can paint the roses in the Waterford vase on the antique Flamenco shawl on the baby grand piano on the silk Persian carpet which flows beneath the lace, bead and taffeta gown. I can't do that, and if I am not going to be the right painter for them, I want to know right away.

I let people know right away that the only purpose background serves for me is to lead the viewer where I want him to go, regardless of whether there is bare canvas visible or not.

I also agree that a successful vignette can be difficult to pull off, and as matter of fact, I think we should start a thread on this very topic, if one does not already exist.

Quote:

being taught by a family of wolves.

That may be, but you still have lovely manners.

Kimberly Dow · 02-12-2005, 08:38 PM

Chris,

I wanted to clarify - I agree completely that we should educate our clients. I am referring to not educatinig (or to word it differently: selling) those that are just viewing the work. I guess I would look at those comments that Mike was asking about the same as I would if someone were to ask me "why do you paint so tight, why not loosen up?" If this were a potential client situation I wouldn't put much effort into trying to get them to 'like' my style. I always assume, and I do ask to make sure, that it is MY work someone wants when they are hiring me. There is a part of my contract that states something like "...hiring this artist for their particular style..." and more about being familiar with the artists style.

I may have taken Mike's question and twisted it. He wants to have a way to discuss this and make these types more valid to clients who don't get it ( I hope am am putting that close enough to what you meant) - and I kind of feel that if they dont get it, they cant be talked into it.

I'm curious Chris - when you say you want to know if they want work more like this artist or that one - do you show them samples of others work? I'm wondering why this is necessary if they have seen your work? I always assume that if we show them our work then they can see what their painting will be like. And if they didn't like our work they wouldn't be there... You have a distinctive style - I wouldn't hire you unless I loved that. It seems like common sense, but maybe I'm being too simplistic.

Chris Saper · 02-12-2005, 08:48 PM

Hi Kim,

My apologies as I think I was not very clear - I absolutely agree that the reason we as painters get hired is because people like our work. In my experience, though, I get many potentials who don't really know about what's out there to be had, and are trying to recover from sticker shock ( I should preface this to say maybe this is more suitable for the business section, as I don't make appointments to see potentials unless they already know my prices. That doesn't mean they're not still shocked

)

To this end I keep a comparative market portfolio primarily for the purpose of pricing education. Unless the average client has actually done any portrait shopping, there's no reason that they would know what portraits cost. So I show them a variety of styles and prices. I encourage them to do research. I want to show them that they are getting good value with me. In the course of this, yes, they will see many other artists' styles.

I suppose all of this would fit under the category of "Pre-qualifying a Client".

I also think you are 100% right, no amount of sales pitch can make someone like a style they aren't attracted to...

Linda Brandon · 02-12-2005, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike McCarty

When an intelligent, albeit not in the arts, person says to you:

* when will you finish it?
* why have you already framed it?
* did you just get bored with it and quit?
* were you pressed to start another?
* I would want mine to be finished with paint everywhere.
* you would charge less for this, right?

I know what you mean. I've also run into quite a few people who come right out and say that it drives them crazy when the artist doesn't fill up every spot of available space. I usually say something to the effect that the modern world has become so used to photography that we no longer see reality except as a camera might see it, i.e. with every area filled with something. But an artist is concerned with design and the direction of attention.

Another idea is to find a J.S. Sargent portrait executed this way, show them a copy and announce, "Look! Sargent did it this way." They will probably have heard of Sargent.

Michele Rushworth · 02-12-2005, 10:06 PM

Calvin Goodman, who is arguably the authority on art marketing, starts off by saying "The art market is not the mass market." I think someone who would ask questions like these is probably not a serious prospect.

Mike McCarty · 02-12-2005, 10:33 PM

As much as anything I am trying to educate myself for the possibility that someday I may be asked to elaborate, to explain the rational for choosing to cover the canvas or not. Eyes can be directed with color, shapes ... with paint.

Some artists are capable of more than one style. They might some day be asked to explain why two subjects, each in head and shoulder pose, would be depicted so differently.

In the example I posted above I recall that what I ended up with was the result of a fairly organic and spontaneous experience. It was not something that was a preconceived notion. But, it would seem that when we do these commissions we don't really have that kind of freedom, the freedom to be completely spontaneous.