Kevin

[Steven Sweeney]

I had a bad experience last night.

Me, too. I hope yours didn't include folding your drawing up into a WhiteWings airplane and sailing it over the rail into the sea, because I don't think you were far from quite a successful piece.

I've been searching for just the right exemplars to post, but haven't had luck, so I'll just note that I think most of the difficulty you were having had to do with 1) getting the right values and 2) getting them in the right place, in order to correctly describe the form.

Obviously you were dealing with a pretty recalcitrant reference photo when it came to seeking information, but I think you began to get into trouble when departing from the overall value scheme, especially in bringing too much light into the shadow side of the face. This left a stripe of dark value right down the middle, with the effect of, among other things, making the mouth look a little beak'ed, or "pursed," as you put it.

Go fish that drawing out of the water and have another go, remembering that form comes before -- long before -- details.

[Mike McCarty]

Patricia,

I know something about nitpicking and I would suggest that big toothed paper does not lend itself to this activity.

Many years ago I showed one of my paintings to an old artist, he looked it over and suggested that it had "died of borning." What I took from that was that it's birth, and it's death, had occured simultaneously. An interesting observation that I will never forget.

I like what you have started above. As to the plaid shirt, I don't think I would go all that much further with it.

[Patricia Joyce]

Well Steven and Mike,
You both brought me to a smile and that helps immensely!!!! You are exactly right, it died of borning, I LOVE that phrase and I am so guilty of it. I complain all the time that I can kill a portrait in the last hour of work (which is why my drawing from a week long workshop sits unfinished - too afraid of carrying it too far and ruining a week long, intense piece!) Mike, what kind of paper would you suggest???

I did not fold it into an airplane and sail it off the sixth floor balcony (a great idea!) I forced myself to just put it away. But I awoke this morning with it looking at me and I had that sinking "morning after" awareness that it did not get better all by itself overnight! So it is back to square one except that I do believe smoother paper will be a key.

Yes, it did look like I had a dark "stripe" of shadow down the center of the face. It actually did not look that obvious in person, but I knew I had to furn the form with better tonal range. The grainy paper just wouldn't do it for me.

Well, I will post my next efforts and I will wish for you to have a better day today in your studio Steven!!

[Matthew Severson]

Mrs. Joyce, your second attempt is a great improvement over the first; much better likeness. Your technique reminds me a bit of Andrew Loomis -is anyone is familiar with work?

Matthew

P.S. - Your son sounds like he lives a pretty exciting life! I can amagine how proud you are!

[Steven Sweeney]

Originally Posted by Matthew Severson

I always have a hard time getting myself to finish something. If I'm unsatisfied with my work I throw it away, if I'm satisfied with it I'm afraid of going too far and ruining it. I'm very timid with my pencil, and usually end up with a light drawing that people have to squint to see. Any suggestions on how to break this habit?

Matthew, I'm certain that a number of members would find this matter of "seeing a project through" very thought-provoking and would be eager to comment -- but that's all going to get lost in this thread, which ought anyway to be focused on Patty's critique.

I'd very much encourage you to begin a new topic in the Cafe to get this discussion rolling. (If you'd like some assistance doing this, let me know.) We are even now looking into adjusting the Cafe a little to make it easier to find and participate in discussions of "artist's life" matters just like this. Just part of our Famous Ongoing Service.

[Matthew Severson]

Oh im sorry, forgive me for being rude. I didn't mean to ramble on to a different subject in someone elses thread. I talk more than I should im afraid

Matthew

[Patricia Joyce]

Matthew,
Thank you for the encouraging words on my second attempt at Kevin! Please don't apologize for sharing your same experiences with working and finishing projects. I think Steven was making a helpful suggestion in that your comments are very valid to many of us and would make a good thread on it's own. Starting a new one, as Steven suggested makes it easier for members to find, enabling them to participate in the conversation. If your remarks stayed here in my critique, few would see it.

Again, I appreciate your input and hope for more in ensuing drawing I will be putting up for critique (see Brandon ...)

[Michele Rushworth]

Tony Ryder says in his book that he uses Strathmore 400 Drawing paper, with a medium smooth surface.

[Mike McCarty]

Patricia,

My way up north buddy, Juan Martinez, offered this regarding drawing papers. I don't know where in the forum it resides, I have it in my personal archives.

Juan writes:

For more finished drawings in pencil (graphite) and/or charcoal, you'll probably end up finding that you will need a couple of different papers. For example, the Stonehenge I am familiar has a relatively smooth texture and takes graphite well. And, as Peggy said, it is tough. I find it too smooth for charcoal, however, so for that, I use a paper with more tooth so that the charcoal has something to grab hold of.

My favourite papers for finished drawings of the non-graphite variety (charcoal, carbon pencil) are all from Fabriano. Some of them are normally sold as watercolour paper, but they are superb drawing papers. The best all-round one is Fabriano UNO. It is double-sized so it is tough. I use the one they call "soft press" which is not as heavily textured as the cold press. (Hot press is too smooth generally for finished drawings. It can be done, but it takes way too much work). Anyway, UNO is 100% cotton and acid-free. I also use Fabriano FA5 which is a less expensive version of the UNO. It is only 50% cotton content, but is also acid-free. Both are very tough and can stand a lot of abuse, although perfect erasure is nearly impossible.

Finally, for purely charcoal use, the Fabriano Roma line is excellent. It is not quite as tough as the previously mentioned ones, but because of that (maybe it has less sizing) it seems to accept more charcoal and it does erase almost perfectly (be gentle, though; use a kneadable eraser). The line has names such as Roma Michelangelo or Roma Tizziano, etc. These designate different colours.

Hope it helps.

Juan

[Patricia Joyce]

Thanks Michele and Mike. Of course I should know what Tony uses and I do have some. He used the smoother side also.

I have had great luck with the more expensive Fabriano but I don't like the 50/50 I've picked up at my local art store. It is too rough to be 100% erasable. In fact I think this drawing is done on the Fabriano, less expensive brand.

Back to the drawing board!!! Thank you for the time you took to find this information and to respond to my inquiry. I'm going home to my studio after work and sorting through all my drawing paper...

And maybe put on some soft music!!!!

and pour a glass of wine...

and start anew!!