Critique & anger, a lethal mix - Page 2

Michael Georges · 03-08-2003, 02:42 PM

Personally, I think that the requirements for being a member are enough. It is important that once you are in you have full access to the benefits of the Forum, IMO.

It is inevitable in online discussion that someone is going to take something wrong or be hurt by something someone says. I believe we have to trust in the forum guidelines and the fact that the forum requires a professional and courteous discourse.

Besides, we create too many more rules or gates and we moderators will be sitting here alone!

My 2c...

Karin Wells · 03-08-2003, 03:19 PM

Hmmmm. I do learn from the mistakes that other painters make. Sometimes it is much easier for me to see the mistakes of others than my own and I suspect that others may operate this way too. All in all, I do think that a good critique can be a dandy lesson for all - no matter what the piece looks like.

In trying to rescue people from themselves, the thing that frustrates me the most is attitude, not skill level.

When someone is unwilling to, at the very least, make the necessary effort to improve, or worse, to even admit that a change could be an improvevement.

BTW, I am NOT talking about ANY particular person on this Forum...it is just an accumulation of things that has led me to gnash my teeth and scream "overload."

I do have a streak of "teacher" in me and I delight in working with someone who is willing to work with me. A couple of years ago, I taught a small class of six 9th graders how to "paint like the Old Masters." None of those kids were interested in art and they had no aspirations to become artists. However, at the end of the year, they had each produced a very good painting and managed to develop a good eye. They still keep in touch and enjoy going to visit museums and seeing the masterworks.

The point that I am trying to make is that they had no skill...but they were very willing to work...and they were able to learn the basics.

Cynthia Yelverton · 03-08-2003, 05:48 PM

Karin,

Oh, please, oh, please! Don't let the ungrateful on the forum ruin it for the rest of us! I am learning so much and am trying to practice it and integrate it! I have gotten rid of my flash, and am always thinking single light source.

I went to a workshop recently and showed the pro artist some of my new photos (artist Forum style) and she wanted to know if I was a photographer. So I am slowly improving. I don't have a regular teacher, so this forum is like gold to me! Thank you for all of your input, it is read and savored! Don't let the others discourage you!

Blessings,
Cynthia

Karin Wells · 03-08-2003, 06:10 PM

Quote:

I went to a workshop recently and showed the pro artist some of my new photos(portrait artist Forum style) and she wanted to know if I was a photographer.

Good for you! Now that really cheers me up.

Mike McCarty · 03-08-2003, 06:22 PM

I think that I agree with Michael G.

Philosophically speaking, if you can argue that there is a wide range of quality work to be critiqued, you could also argue that there is a wide range of quality critiquers. Shall we jury them as well?

When the most experienced have passed on giving their critique of a less than magnificent effort, this may give an opportunity for the less than great to exercise their critique skills. If the critique is out of line, others may step in and give a nudge back to the center.

Steven Sweeney · 03-08-2003, 11:48 PM

The difficulty with jurying the critiquers is that there is already a dearth of people willing to take on the always time-consuming and sometimes onerous

Elizabeth Schott · 03-09-2003, 12:32 AM

It is funny, when I was studying courtroom drawing, I swear I wanted to stand up and say, "I DID IT". I am the first to admit I am sensitive and to change this was my New Year's resolution.

As I wrote in the "Of donkeys and lost boys" thread. This has been a wonderful experience for me. I have taken some rough critiques and have grown, in my opinion, by leaps in bounds. I wish you could be here with me to watch.

I have been introduced to incredible artists and am actually meeting them and taking their classes.

I think Karin knows me very well! Sometimes I think the photo reference problem is not always the photos taken by the artist, but the artist accepting photos from the client which are incredibly sub-par. I learned my lesson, and I won't do it anymore.

My last photo critique was very educational. Sharon gave me tons of feedback. She is very accomplished at this. I also see the passion in Mike McCarty's work. I think something that would be helpful for me, is to see some of the pro's reference, if they have it avilable to post.

Do we want pats on the back? I personally love them! But it is not why I am here. I send out for those!

I do want to point out a lesson I learned in raising kids that might make it much easier for you pros to be incredibly honest...

As loud as you scream when someone does something wrong, scream just as loud when they do something right!

Sharon did this simply by telling me she loved my lighting.

I know you guys spend a lot of time with critiques, but rest assured there are those of us spending tons of time fixing our work to your suggestions.

Long live the forum - and Michele I like your idea. It reminded me of American Idol. My husband said he couldn't believe that those people thought they could sing. I told him I have been knocked off my chair by some of the art that was posted here before Cynthia changed the rules. You know, I hope you aren't thinking of me now that I have said that!

There is that sensitive person again!

Just a thought: the most hurting thing for me is nothing being said at all.

Thank you!

Timothy C. Tyler · 03-09-2003, 01:49 AM

Learning to take well-intended remarks from fellow artists is merely a warm-up to taking the remarks of clients and galleries which will happen one day as artists move out in the world of art. Might as well learn to take it now. It's all part of this biz.

Rochelle Brown · 03-09-2003, 07:46 PM

There's no denying it. Most artists are very sensitive.

If it is appropriate to say so here, I will offer a suggestion. Since models are expensive and sometimes hard to find it may be useful to draw or paint one's own reflection. So many masters have done this. Also, when the weather allows, it is enjoyable to go to the park and draw people lying down or go to a restaurant and try to draw people as they are eating. In school we had life drawing timed to 1 minute, 5 minute and 30 minute sessions. One teacher made us draw draped sheets for 4 weeks! uhh!

John Zeissig · 03-09-2003, 07:58 PM

Amen, Tim!

When I first started exhibiting artwork it was apparent that things didn