Has the book on painting been closed?

Patricia Joyce · 10-19-2004, 10:44 AM

An interesting dialogue has started in the "Introduce Yourself" (Greetings from Madrid) thread between a new member Carlos Ygoa and Sharon Knettell and Allan Rahbek. It was suggested that the subject move here, at Cafe Guerbois.

Has the book on painting in the style of the Old Masters and realism been closed? Or as Sharon suggested, has it just "not been taken out of the library much in the last 80 years".

This subject is striking home for me lately as I take classes at local art centers and colleges in the Cleveland area.
I am currently taking a sixteen week course in oil painting, a combination second/third/fourth year art class with thirty students. We are tripping over ourselves among our easels. It is woefully discouraging to see that these "serious" art students cannot draw a simple still life, much less paint a representation of form.

When the class participates in the critique some disturbing remarks have been made about my simple paintings (still life's thus far) "You can see that Pat has drawn this subject well, and being able to draw helps in a painting, but it is not necessary". The Associate Professor then goes into this discourse on how the world is so vast now, that being able to draw is not essential to good art.

Now I am working on a copy of Vermeer's Girl with a Pearl and the remarks I have gotten from my instructor is, "Don't worry, by the end of the semester I will get you to loosen up. Why would you choose a masterwork from the 17th century when modern portraiture can be so exciting?"

Ugh, seven more weeks before this class is finished and it was announced we will now move into the "fun" stuff, abstract art.

Herein lies my struggle. I am painfully aware that I am an infant to painting. Yet, I am serious about wanting to study portraiture and realism. And Cleveland seems void of teachers who appreciate realism, much less want to teach it.

When every discretionary penny is going into my education I wonder if I am throwing my money away in classes where there is no support for my determination to learn realism and fine portraiture. At this point I am tempted to drop the class and spend those 15 hours a week painting from life and good reference photos when I do not have a model in front of me?

Michele Rushworth · 10-19-2004, 11:08 AM

Quote:

...drop the class and spend those 15 hours a week painting from life and good reference photos when I do not have a model in front of me?

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Whenever I take a class I make sure I have a very clear idea of what the instructor will be teaching, as well as a clear idea of the kind of work they themselves are capable of. I wasted years and lots of dollars "studying art" at the University level learning how to talk about art but nothing at all about how to paint realistically.

I won't get into distinctions about what is "good art" and "bad art". I like to look at all kinds of things in varying degrees of realism. What I like to paint myself, though, makes up only a very narrow subset of all the art education that is available out there. You may have to take an out of town workshop to get some solid realism instruction.

Patricia Joyce · 10-19-2004, 11:16 AM

Ah, and that is where my hard earned dollars are being spent now, just sent in my reservation for and made my airline reservations for "Hot Atlanta" with Marvin! I will not be participating with oils, but to avail myself of his lectures, demonstrations and teaching of others, I am sure will advance my own abilities. January can't come fast enough! And this is also why I am considering dropping the class, to spend the time doing monochromatic studies from life. I can't do both, attend this class and paint from a model, there are only so many hours in my week...

Thanks for your encouragement Michele!

Marvin Mattelson · 10-19-2004, 11:52 AM

Hang on there Pat. As Mighty Mouse used to say, "Here I come to save the day! " Seriously, I would advise you to just concentrate on drawing. Set up still life's with one strong light source and focus on getting the right shapes and values. These are the two most important things in painting. I would suggest charcoal as a medium since it handles closely to paint in many ways.

I would highly recommend getting the book of Charles Bargue's Drawing Course which is available from the Dahesh Museum, located in New York City. This book reproduces the plates designed by Jean Leon Gerome to teach drawing principles to students at the French Academy. These are the very principles I champion in my teaching. This will help prepare your drawing for painting purposes immensely.

I also recommend reading Harold Speed's books on drawing and painting (available from Dover Books.) These will get you up to speed and thinking in the basic right direction.

I made the non-painting participant status available as an option because I felt that half a loaf is better than no loaf at all, but I would suggest you consider upgrading, if at all possible, to get the very most out of the workshop and me. Being able to paint with me there, to answer questions and offer advice, would make a big difference. I understand when you factor in the cost of the supplies this basically doubles your costs but I think if you can swing it, it would pay off in the long run. Either way, I'm confident you'll find the experience to be far more satisfying than the class you're taking now. You will be juiced!

Patricia Joyce · 10-19-2004, 01:11 PM

Mighty Mouse, My Hero!!
I think the only way I can show up in Atlanta is as a non-painter, I don't have the courage to show up with my paint box. But, don't worry, Marvin, my plan is to make this my "introduction to Marvin" workshop. Hopefully it will be the first of several workshops with "the Mighty Mouse"!!

I do have the Bargue book, ordered it as soon as I heard about it and I love using it. I have a notebook filled with drawings from the book. I have not considered Speed's book but will look into it. Thank you for the suggestion.

The worst and the most I can hope for in January is that I will be there, watching you paint, and the other students, DYING to be painting myself!! I really plan on being "juiced"!

Michele Rushworth · 10-19-2004, 01:18 PM

Oh, bring your paints..... really!

Patricia Joyce · 10-19-2004, 01:21 PM

Are you going to be there Michele? I am so tempted, but apprehensive, I have NO experience painting except for the three simple paintings I have done in this class (will soon be posting the finished "Girl with a Pearl")

Michele Rushworth · 10-19-2004, 01:48 PM

No, I won't be attending. I'm still trying to assimilate the information I've gathered from classes, videos and books from many different instructors over the past year or two. Perhaps in another year I'll sign up for more classes. Fortunately we have the Seattle Academy of Fine Art here which teaches great realistic painting so I don't need to travel so much.

But back to you... what do you have to lose by bringing your paints to Marvin's class? You'll learn more if you dive right in.

Debra Norton · 10-19-2004, 11:33 PM

Patricia, I agree with Michele, jump in there with your paint and brushes. I'm learning too, and it amazes me how much you learn by "just doing it." Be brave and take your paints to the workshop, I know you'll be glad you did.
Debra

Kimberly Dow · 10-20-2004, 12:46 AM

Patricia -

You've got more guts than this. Bring the paints. What are you afraid of? There will be worse painters than you and better painters - so what? I bet not one person will make fun of you - unless you dress funny or something.....but that;s another topic

It truly seems like such a waste of money to go and not take full advantage.