Poll #2 - The value of a formal art education, part 2

[Heidi Maiers]

Answer this poll if you did not have a formal art education. Answer poll #1 if you did.
You can select as many answers as apply and are not limited to just one.

[Alexandra Tyng]

I noticed these were posted in 2004.

I'm one of those oddballs who did not have a formal art education. However, I really didn't feel that I could check any one of the choices in the poll. At the time that I went to college, realism was not encouraged, and I didn't know of any art schools that taught traditional methods except for one very good school that did not offer a degree program. I very much wanted to go further academically and I got into a very good college, so I went. While I was there, I took a wonderful drawing class and a painting class, but I majored in Art History and was blissfully happy in academia. When I graduated, I guess I could have gone to PAFA, but I didn't think of it. Instead I got a Masters in Education, which so far has turned out to be useless, and went right into painting portraits and landscapes while working in various jobs on the side.

I'm not against art education at all. I think I would have learned a lot of things faster. On the other hand, I've always been a self-starter, and I tend to move from one thing to another, then back again, because it keeps me interested. I think would have found drawing only from plaster casts for months very stultifying. I can see it's good discipline, and it would probably be good for me--but, to be realistic, one or two at a time would be all I could stand.

On the "down" side, I'm dumb at artspeak. And I don't get invited to the PAFA alumni shows because I'm not an alum. Sigh! A lot of my friends are alums and they know all these other artists who went there, while I'm just beginning to get to know some of them. Another more disturbing negative is that, in the traditional realist movement, I see a definite bias against artists who were not formally trained or have not at least "studied" with a "master." I don't appreciate the prejudiced way in which some people see me and my work.

On the "up" side, I draw and paint from life, I read about art, look at art, talk to artists, and basically LIVE ART. It's a lifelong learning process, and I set myself a pretty rigorous course. Many of my friends who went to art school keep telling me I didn't miss a thing, that they learned most of what they know after they graduated from art school and started really painting. Instead of being trained according to some "school," I was free to develop my own style from the beginning by learning from the painters whose styles I admired.

For me, not getting formal training has, I think, been mostly positive. I'm not saying it would work for someone else, but it has for me.

[Alexandra Tyng]

I am wondering why the people answering poll # 2 do not get to answer the following questions that are asked in poll # 1:

--I received support and encouragement for my decision to pursue art as a career from friends and family.

--Now that I am a successful artist (let's assume) it is the same people that once discouraged me from pursuing art as a career that are now my biggest supporters.

--I am making a decent living as an artist.

--I rely on my spouse for the majority of my financial support.

And why do those who answered poll # 1 not get to answer the following questions in poll #2:

--I plan on going back to school to study fine art.

--I attend artist workshops.

--I think a formal education is somewhat worthless and everything I need to know to succeed can be gained by practical experience, practice, and networking with other artists.

It seems that the polls were started with certain stereotypes in mind, and they might lead to skewed results with little basis for direct comparison. (Maybe my M.S. in Ed. is starting to come in handy; we did this kind of analysis in my most boring class!) I suggest we combine these into one set of questions and rephrase the questions so they are more neutral. Then we can ask the same questions of the two groups.

[Heidi Maiers]

Hey Alexandra,
Feel free to reword, reassign, or redo this poll however you'd like. Certainly won't hurt my feelings any
My memory is sketchy on this - it was originally posted several years ago. I seem to remember the initial topic being about whether or not we were encouraged or discouraged to pursue art as a career and how that affected us. Then, conversation drifted into the area of a formal art education and the value of such. Somewhere along the line it was suggested to me that I make a poll regarding whether one had a formal education or not, and list as many poll questions as applied, based on that original question. The poll allows multiple selections, and it's indeed possible that none apply or only partially apply and the artist can choose to elaborate on their particular situation.
Anyway, it might be easier for you to just delete these two polls and make a new one.

[Chris Saper]

LOL Alex, I did my master's thesis in survey research document construction and administration.

Heidi I answered both polls, I assume by "formal" art education you mean a tradtional university or equivalent setting. My bachelor's degree was a whole lot of fun (1970's) - and certainly wonderful in terms of its liberal arts content, but essentially worthless in terms of pursuing a career in art.

A formal education interms of atelier training, though, I think would be far different. Same with workshop study.

[Alexandra Tyng]

Really? I was hoping no one would be offended by my suggestion. Chris, you probably have more expertise that I, but I would be glad to try redesigning the poll(s) if somebody would look them over and make changes. My grad school experience was in the 70s, too--a LONG time ago!

Chris, you made a good point about Atelier training vs. college/art school. Maybe we need 3 different polls, all with the same questions, each asking whether the person has taken or plans to take workshops?

[Lacey Lewis]

Or 4 different polls....

I was very interested in the survey, but didn't feel I really fit anywhere. I have an A.A.S. degree in art, and I am not sure where that would 'classify' in terms of formal art education.

I wouldn't say that I learned much about making art there. I went in wanting to learn how to paint, and even after graduating Summa Cum Laude and taking the most advanced painting class they had, I didn't know how to paint at all. But, I really enjoyed the sociology and philosophy classes, and the pottery class.

I don't regret spending the time and energy there, but I really didn't learn a thing until I studied on my own, which is why I have not trotted off to KCAI like I planned to do when I was 15. I am, though, dreaming of taking workshops and really want to build relationships with artists I admire to keep the info and passion bouncing around.

I'll keep on the lookout for a new poll.

[Lacey Lewis]

Hello,

I am doing another OPAL program in a couple weeks and my subject this time is formal art education. I know there was talk of creating a new poll, but if anyone would be interested in leaving their thoughts here, voting if you did not, or PMing or emailing me I would be very interested to hear what you have to say.

(This message will be repeated in both poll threads.)

[Richard Bingham]

Hi Alex, are you going to draw a conclusion from this thread? It's mighty interesting.

I also don't feel like I "fit" into the poll. My Dad and my high-school art teacher both wanted me to pursue a "good" art education, and at the time I believe that would have been possible: Art Center LA, BMFA Museum School, Art Students League, RISD . . . all were excellent schools 40 years ago.

I stayed home because I was having too much fun playing cowboy, and went to the State U, where the art department was essentially a waste of time. If I hadn't known how to draw and paint before I got there, I certainly wouldn't have learned from that experience, but the BA was a nice touch.

I've worked 35 years in signs, advertising and illustration, right up to the point where the computer has taken all the fun out of it, and thanking God I've been able to make my living with a brush. This "fine art" stuff is a tough gig though!

[Alexandra Tyng]

Richard, at one point I tried making three polls. I worked on it for about a week but it got so complicated I gave up. I realized how hard it was to really make the polls neutral and I ended up having a lot more sympathy for Heidi who made them up in the first place!