Underpainting

Leslie Bohoss · 03-03-2003, 01:07 PM

Hello to all!

This is my third and the most complex oil project (after a little trip to pastel and charcoal.)

It is from the book How to Paint Like the Old Masters, by Joseph Sheppard. If anyone has this book, this is the second project from the chapter "Techniques of Titian".

I fought a very long time with the hands (my first and last

) Both are in tricky positions.

Size is 30" x 24". My first self-made canvas. The last two layers of gesso were mixed with marble-powder, then sanded. (I believe that was a tip from Michael Georges.)

Underpainting is a mixture of ivory black and titanium white (called halfpaste in the book.) The cape in the book is made with umber or sienna. I made all with this halfpaste, don't ask me why. (Crazy.)

Has anyone a good tip to make curly hair? Her hair is much more curly. I'll try it with a little blending brush.

More or less I'm happy with it.

May I trouble you for any comments? Thank you all and best wishes.

Leslie

Tito Champena · 03-04-2003, 09:57 PM

Hi Leslie,

I'm glad somebody else has this book. I have read it but I find it a little confusing or not completely explained, thus, I have never tried his methods. He likes to use carmine and vermilion for his reds and I understand that those colors are fugitive.

Tito Champena · 03-04-2003, 10:15 PM

Hi Leslie,

It is me again. I forgot to make some comments about your underpainting.

I believe that there is something wrong with the drawing of the fingers, the length of the phalanges (bones) look anatomically incorrect.

Regarding how to paint curly hair, Leonardo said that you should paint it like running water.

I'll be interested in seeing how your painting comes out and then I would try to do one myself. The one I'm working on right now is based on a technique discussed in this Forum by using Verdaccio for the underpainting. Right now I'm in the process of applying color to the underpainting and it has gotten rather complicated because when I apply opaque color to the areas of light, the underpainting gets covered and I lose it. Then I wonder if it was necessary to have an underpainting after all.

Karin Wells · 03-04-2003, 11:11 PM

The darks in your underpainting look much too dark. You need to paint them a little lighter because when you glaze color into something that dark, you won't be able to see it.

Also, when you have such dark areas in the underpainting, there is no "room" to build light without creating extreme contrasts between light and shadow.

How to Paint Like the Old Masters has some flaws for sure, but it really helped me when I was learning to underpaint.

Leslie Bohoss · 03-05-2003, 11:57 AM

Hello!

Thank you for your responses!

I didn't make this simple test in Photoshop (transparent layer original over mine), so as to learn the "right" way of seeing without technical tools. Yesterday, I did the test and I'm very frustated. I have a lot of error. Biggest is that the face must be rounder, then nose is too long, the angle of the hands is not the same, etc.. (Shame, shame.)

Karin,

I learned from you that in the underpainting it is better to use middle values, and then I can go to dark or highlight (no shadows, no highlights [in the underpainting] leaves "room" to play). To all apperances, Sheppard took another way, always making a fully-detailed grisaille. I'm interested in how this works. My photo has more contrast than my picture. I tried to correct that.

Tito,

That is cool what Leonardo said, but the next question is, How can I paint running water?

I'll repaint the face, more roundness etc., but I'm afraid to touch the hands. Hands seem to be more complicated than all other areas.

To your problem with the covering of underpainting -- I have this problem, too. Recently, I took a piece of MDF, and painted a gray arm (simple) then added much more glazing medium to the mix and only a tiny yellow ochre (or other really opaque color in the skintone mix) and used zinc white instead of titanium. I think that will be better. You can still see the underpainting, but you must do many more layers.

I think it must be covered partially, and only in shadows can you see the underpainting. Michael Georges wrote to me, it is like a map. The helping function for me is that, in direct-painting (which most artists do), one must consider two things at the same time: shape and color. This is definitely too hard for a "limited" artist such as me.

In addition, I like it that this is an "old" technique, (and I like old things) and the pictures have a little museum-like touch and glow.
By the way, I spoke with a few 'modern' artists (who have been painting over 12 years) -- they have never tried (or even heard of!) this funny way of painting. (Funny, then the people always ask me, why do you make black and white oil paintings?

Now, prepare to laugh at me. The final version from the book:

Tito Champena · 03-05-2003, 08:53 PM

Leslie, you made an excellent copy. It looks just like the one in the book or perhaps a little better. Did you use vermilion for the red areas?

Of course, Leonardo knew how to paint hair, water and millions of other things, but he still used the same hands and the same brushes. I interpret "painting wavy hair like running water", as trying to paint it in a loose manner with a random harmony, without thinking whether it was water or hair.

Leslie Bohoss · 03-06-2003, 07:38 AM

Hi Tito!

Oh, no! I did not write clearly. This is a scan from the book as a reference (as not all readers have this book). I will repaint a few things (as noted in the postings.)

Sorry! Yesterday, I was little furious because of my errors.

I would be very glad, if I would say, "so what?"

A peaceful Leslie

Josef Sy · 03-06-2003, 08:27 AM

Hi Leslie,

I have the same book and I find the techniques between artists are pretty much the same. I was very disappointed in this book. In fact I had done more research before, and the Flemish artists' techniques are very incomplete and there are a lot of steps missing.

There is a really good demo of the Flemish technique at this site. You have to pay though. This is the site. http://www.artpapa.com The portrait of Anna.

Cheers

Karin Wells · 03-06-2003, 11:11 AM

The "Portrait of Anna" is a video. Alexei Antonov also has an excellent video on underpainting a still life. Both are complex but worthwhile if you seriously wish to study this technique.

Meanwhile, I still think that Sheppard's book has great value in simplifying the principles of underpainting no matter what "school" approach you choose to study and use.

Leslie Bohoss · 03-06-2003, 12:16 PM

Thank you all,

I first found through Google (last summer) the site of A. Antonov. He shows two examples with the 7-layer technique, including a rose with an ant and an apple. He makes really wonderful pictures, too. First I'll try this, then verdaccio.

I'll post my stages from this picture and my other one in progress.

Best wishes,
Leslie