Commission-WIP

[Barbara Mae Hudson]

Originally Posted by Leslie Ficcaglia

Barbara, I too think you've done a marvelous job with a less-than-ideal reference photo.

A couple of suggestions: you've already softened the girl's face and taken away a lot of that hard, posed stare, but softening the indentations on either side of her mouth might help even more. You may have some reference photos that will help you see how to make that smile look a bit more natural. Her upper lip also has a little more definition in the photo; you have it slightly narrower which accentuates the hard look.

The other thing is that her back and shoulder on our left side look a bit off in the painting because in the photo the dark collar of her top shows a little more depth where it changes direction at the left and goes around under her chin. That makes it read as though the shoulder and back are a bit straighter than you have them in the painting - straight not in the sense of being horizontal but in the sense of being smoother . Also, the collar of that top comes up higher where it goes around the back of her neck in the photo. Both of these details give her shoulder a much more natural slope. Hope you can see what I mean here!

Leslie

Dear Leslie,

Thank you so much for your help and advice. I have printed out your suggestions and I intend to follow them up today.

I was tempted to soften the corners of her mouth more but a little nervous that I may take away her 'likeness', but I think that you are right and it needs to be done. I hadn't noticed the upper lip difference and I will also follow that up.

Regarding the collar, I do see what you mean! I will also correct that today. These are all the 'little things' that I think we tend to lose sight of because we have worked too long on an area in a painting that is problematic, and the little 'tweaks' that are added when a painting is nearing an end are so important as I'm sure you know yourself. So as reluctant as I am to put it back on the easel (yet again), I will finish it and put it back to bed today, and then (hopefully) forget it.

Thank you once again for your help, it really is so much appreciated.

Take care,

Barbara

[Barbara Mae Hudson]

Originally Posted by Henry Wienhold

Barbara with out a doubt I think that you have done a good job capturing the likeness of these two children.

One thing that I have noticed is the extreme sharpness of the girls shoulder, the strong diagonal where it meets the background. This sharpness is the one thing I find disturbing about this portrait, otherwise you have done a great job with the supplied reference photo.

You made the background light in color and value, almost the same value as the photo. The only suggestion I have is to soften the edge of this shoulder area, create a lost edge. You can do this by blending of course, or you could darken the value of the background and try and match the existing value of the girls shirt. This is what I would do with a portrait such as this, create a much darker background then I could lose a few edges making a more natural appearance.

Also I have noticed if you darken the background on the shoulder side and leave the opposite side somewhat lighter you will emphasize an already existing strong diagonal by the position and combination of the two figures. So by eliminating the sharp diagonal of the shoulder area you will still have a good diagonal design element on the opposite side. Diagonal design elements often add interest to a portrait.

You may want to look at some of the work of John Howard Sanden he always manages to create such a natural look with his ability to control values and edges, his work is a prime example of what I am trying to say.

Think soft with just a few sharp edges to break up the monotony, keep it changing.

Henry

Dear Henry,

Thank you so much for your help and advice. I do agree with you about the background, I too feel that it should be darker in value so that I would be able to lose a few edges, especially the stripe on the girls jersey.

Unfortunately, the parents wanted the background even lighter! Not to be deterred, because I know that you are right, I am going to change the picture's background via photoshop and try to convince the parents to change their minds.

If I am not successful in the above, I will at least soften the edges where I am able.

Thank you once again, the help that I have received on this problematic portrait has been wonderful.

Barbara

[Barbara Mae Hudson]

Originally Posted by Garth Herrick

Dear Barbara Mae,

You have such a nice finish to your portrait that I hate to bring up what bothers me the most, which is the shapes and structures of the kids noses, compared to the reference photo.

On the girl's nose the shadow suggests a much thinner nose than in the photo. Also while the nostrils are placed exactly right, the tip of her nose is too low, which makes it an adult nose rather than a child's.

The boy's nose should be structurally more broad too. The shape of his nose is distinctly different in the photo; the one you depicted is a little finer.

On the girl's eyes, you can probably get away with eliminating all of the black in the lashes. There is no evidence of dark eyelashes in the photo. I would try to work on the shape of the eyes too.

On the boy's eyes I would pay attention to their shape and lack of hard edges in the photo.

There are minor refinements that could be made to the indentures making the expression around and under the girl's lips. I would also pay attention to the structure of her neck.

Overall, like everyone else has said, you have a very successful painting going. The kids hair is particularly well done.

I hope I have not been too hard on you. I think you are getting close to the finish.

Garth

[Barbara Mae Hudson]

Dear Garth,

It never occurred to me to turn the photo's to black and white.......what a difference! You can more easily see the tonal values and it highlights areas where you might be going wrong. I assume tha you do this via the Channel feature, anyway this was where I found the the option. I can't think why it didn't occur to me before!

I will be working on it again today and going through all your points in turn.

Thank you so much for your help Garth, it really is very much appreciated.

Take care,

Barbara

[Garth Herrick]

Originally Posted by Barbara Mae Hudson

It never occurred to me to turn the photo's to black and white.......what a difference! You can more easily see the tonal values and it highlights areas where you might be going wrong. I assume tha you do this via the Channel feature, anyway this was where I found the the option. I can't think why it didn't occur to me before!

Dear Barbara,

In PhotoShop, I simply used Image/Adjustments/Desaturate. There is more than one way to get there. Using Channels like you said, gives you even more options. If a color is intense, you can push it toward black or white or anything in between, by adjusting the color chanels before you desaturate. The method I used effectively treats all three color channels as equal. Another good option is to convert the RGB file to Grayscale mode.

Garth

[Garth Herrick]

Barbara,

Here is another suggestion to help you straighten out the drawing and proportions in order to get a good likeness: If you can, print details from the reference photo (of the girl's head and of the boy's head, etc.) to the same scale as the painting. I find this immensely helpful in my own work.

There is a measuring utility in Photoshop buried in the eyedropper tool. Measure the head in the photo, and measure the head in the painting. Divide (using a calculator) the dimension from the painting by the dimension from the photo. Write down the result. Under Image/Image Size in Photoshop you can use that calculation result to multiply with either the height or width dimensions to make the photograph file match the scale of your painting (first you may want to reduce the DPI to 96 so you don't have an overwhelmingly huge file).

Once you get the hang of this it is easy to bring your reference image right up to the scale of your painting, and from that you can print out any detail needed, to hold up right next to your painting for comparison.

Hope this helps!

Garth

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Barbara, I think you have done an excellent job on this portrait and it has been interesting to watch the suggestions for improvements and how your painting has evolved.

I don't have Photoshop but I'm reading a lot about it. I have a WIP posted and wanted to get a better idea of the values so I took my reference photo to Kinko's and made a couple of black and white copies. It was helpful to enlarge the photo to the size I'm working on, as Garth suggested in one of his posts having the same size to look at is helpful.

I'm now wondering about how valuable Photoshop might be but that's a subject for another threat.

Barbara, I will continue to watch as you improve this painting. I think it's amazing that you can so easily correct something once it's pointed out to you, not everybody can do that. And that's what is so great about this forum, all the help people are willing to give.

Joan

[Leslie Ficcaglia]

Originally Posted by Garth Herrick

Barbara,

Here is another suggestion to help you straighten out the drawing and proportions in order to get a good likeness: If you can, print details from the reference photo (of the girl's head and of the boy's head, etc.) to the same scale as the painting. I find this immensely helpful in my own work.

There is a measuring utility in Photoshop buried in the eyedropper tool. Measure the head in the photo, and measure the head in the painting. Divide (using a calculator) the dimension from the painting by the dimension from the photo. Write down the result. Under Image/Image Size in Photoshop you can use that calculation result to multiply with either the height or width dimensions to make the photograph file match the scale of your painting (first you may want to reduce the DPI to 96 so you don't have an overwhelmingly huge file).

Once you get the hang of this it is easy to bring your reference image right up to the scale of your painting, and from that you can print out any detail needed, to hold up right next to your painting for comparison.

Hope this helps!

Garth

Garth, I wonder whether this works in Photoshop Elements as well. I've had a devil of a time matching the size of reference photos to portraits in the past. This would definitely make my life easier!

Leslie

[Garth Herrick]

Originally Posted by Leslie Ficcaglia

Garth, I wonder whether this works in Photoshop Elements as well. I've had a devil of a time matching the size of reference photos to portraits in the past. This would definitely make my life easier!

Leslie

Leslie, I have no idea. I don't have PhotoShop Elements. If someone does, maybe they can check if there is a measuring tool option in the eyedropper, or somewhere else.

Garth

[Garth Herrick]

Originally Posted by Joan Breckwoldt

I'm now wondering about how valuable Photoshop might be but that's a subject for another threat.

Joan

Threat?! Joan, you are scaring me!

Garth