Sally study - Page 2

Jean Kelly · 12-03-2002, 01:33 AM

It is truly quite beautiful. I'll look up more of his work. I'd like to take my own work to this level of mastery (hoping not to sound arrogant). At least this is what I'm shooting for and if I attain even 75% of my goal I will have improved immensely. I'll do this exercise again, but on toned paper.

Thank you for showing me this, its appreciated

.

Jean

Lon Haverly · 12-03-2002, 01:48 AM

Technique is part of understanding. This guy did not exactly scribble his way to the form.

Marvin Mattelson · 12-03-2002, 01:49 AM

Shoot for the stars. If you miss you will still be on top of the mountain.

Marvin Mattelson · 12-03-2002, 01:53 AM

Lon,

In my experience technique is formed by understanding. Understanding is not necessarily formed by technique. They are obviously both necessary.

Jean Kelly · 12-03-2002, 02:31 AM

Just visited the Art Renewal Center to see more of Prud'hon's drawings. They are amazing. I'll print one out and put it up by my easel to remind me of where I'm going. Wonder if Sally will pose nude for me. (haha)

Jean

Steven Sweeney · 12-03-2002, 03:48 AM

Jean,

Since you characterized your drawing as a quick charcoal study, which you attempted to heighten (in this case with white chalk), allowing the toned paper to serve as your middle value range, I would commend to your attention the many examples of this in Robert Beverly Hale's Master Class in Figure Drawing. (I mention this reference in part because it's very accessible, both in terms of getting hold of a copy, and understanding his "lessons".)

Descriptive of the technique are pieces such as Durer's "Head of an Apostle in the Heller Altarpiece", a brush drawing with black and white ink. An image of that work (scanned from Hale's book -- this one's a bit dark, sorry, but I was trying to focus on the lights, anyway) is attached. The use of the technique is easy to spot here, in the white-ink lines in both parallel and crosshatched orientation (as well as, of course, the use of black lines to their own form-defining purposes). Incidentally, Hale is actually using the image in a section on drawing the nose, hence the structural lines around that feature.

There are, to be sure, other works in Hale's book depicting the rendering of planes and values to show form, but they are both more highly resolved than the "quick study" form you were working with and they employ techniques other than the very useful (but difficult to master) heightening or highlighting with white.

Cheers.

Durer's image:

Lon Haverly · 12-03-2002, 04:24 AM

In my own experience, technique definitely came first.

Marvin Mattelson · 12-03-2002, 10:04 AM

I have been teaching for 30 years. Originally In taught a technique first approach. In the last several years I have shifted and taken an approach which emphasizes understanding as a guiding light for technique to follow. This shift has resulted in a much more rapid rate of improvement in my students overall skills.

Obviously technique is required to manifest one's art, but, ironically by not stressing it initially, it develops much more quickly. Something akin to watching a pot boil.

And after all, doesn't thought always precede action (especially if you count to ten first)?

Chris Saper · 12-03-2002, 11:31 AM

Hi Jean,

First a note about the charcoal/white topic. I think what makes your drawing less strong than it could be is the distribution of values, both in placement on the page as well as percentage of total surface area. These are indeed things you will want to resolve before moving on to the painting.

Here, the toned paper is called upon to act as the middle value. There is a lot of dark that isn't really dark, and a somewhat lesser amount of white, that isn't really white. The three values are sort of interwoven across the surface, so that there aren't clearly stated solid areas of value. The Prudon drawing emphasizes a really solid and very light form, where the majority of the modeling information lies. The careful placement of a much smaller amount of very dark areas, which contain no real detail, serves to set up the tonal pattern of the piece. The torso commits to a dominant light value, and just uses tiny dark accents.

The Durer piece, in contrast, commits to a dominant dark value, with proportionately very small amount of white; the lights however, are still grouped in proximity rather than being equally distributed over the surface. As I scroll back to your drawing, I don't feel that it has any clearly committed dominant value.

It's important for you to resolve the value scheme now, because that is what will hold your painting together, much more significantly than color, edges or any of the other elements you will consider over the course of its development.

And now, back to the question at hand....the pose! Personally, I like the pose a great deal, although the mouth is in an awkward position, and if it were my painting, I would revisit that part. The only other comment is that it is unclear to me whether she has glasses perched on her head, or whether that is just the hairstyle, so that would be a point to resolve, too. I think you have done a beautiful job on the drawing, and I very much look forward to seeing the painting itself.

Best wishes,

Jean Kelly · 12-03-2002, 01:03 PM

This has been an amazing thread. When I saw Steven's example of highlighting I immediately had a flashback to 1971. My art professor, Jim Schwalbach (prof Schwalby) taught by exposing us to everything. He didn't really critique my work, just showed me examples of what a beautifully rendered charcoal drawing was. Then would look at me and raise one eyebrow. Believe me, I got the message. There were only 5 art majors (only the second year the school was open). We brought sleeping bags to the artroom, cooked hamburger in the microwave. When caught by the Dean we pitched tents in the woods behind the school. It was great. Thanks to all for responding, there is a lot of good solid instruction in this thread.

Jean