Visitors' poll

This is an example of why this forum does not appear to be inviting or welcoming, and a strong reason why large numbers of juried members have not posted even one time.

With due respect for the possibility that appearances may trump reality, there simply is no evidence that it is even a reason, much less a strong one. As for new members who have "never" posted, an equally unsupported explanation may be that lots of artists who very understandably wish to become proficient and even excel are also people who not wish to even risk the possibility of critique, which they read as rejection. (I'm not being judgmental -- I'm describing an earlier version of myself.)

Many members routinely go out of their way to make sure to welcome new members who announce themselves in the "New Members" threads. That welcome is sincere. The vagaries and permutations of what happens in threads thereafter is not a withdrawal of that welcome.

[Steven Sweeney]

Cynthia can correct me on this but I suspect that the number of views for a given thread includes views by nonmembers, who would not have had posting privileges to lodge a reply. So perhaps the fact that 36 people looked at the image and only 1 responded means only that of 5 of the actual members who viewed the image, only 1 felt that he or she had something useful to contribute. (Though it happens, this has rarely been a forum in which a long string of one-line "Way to go!" replies is posted. Usually there's an effort to either say something constructive -- whether positive or "negative" -- or nothing at all.)

I very often bring the Forum up just to see what's going on, even though I don't have time to contribute anything. The next time I come back, the little "light" isn't lit anymore, because the thread is no longer "new," and so I may never get back to a thread that I might otherwise have posted in, had I had the time. Truly -- I have not thereby adjudged the posting artist to be "unacceptable."

As to other matters, I can only reiterate that giving away so much of your own power and potential by investing so much of it in whether or not somebody else pays attention to you is a Mapquest search for Heartache, USA.

There's another phenomenon in play as well, though we're getting afield. There are members who have, over months and years, received literally dozens of elaborate critiques on their work (some of whom never changed a thing in response to them!), and yet never once themselves offered a critique, because they "didn't feel comfortable giving critiques." That's the nonparticipation that I find least defensible.

[Terri Ficenec]

Maybe another reason why there may be fewer critiques is the need to go out to the index... select critiques, then enter the password to see what's there... especially when time is limited, I often visit without even logging in and just check 'today's posts' to see what's up.... When I logged in to post this reply here, I was shocked to see how long it's been since my previous login and what an lot of posts there are in those sections that I've missed. . .

Don't get me wrong... I like that the critiques section is protected with a login requirement... (I've got some, umm earlier work in there that I'd rather not have popping up on search engines!) But wonder if there isn't a way to make it so that if you are simply logged in as a member, the critiques area comes up with the 'new posts' too rather than having to go back out to the index to find the critiques area... I always found the critiques area one of the most interesting and valuable parts of the forum, and part of what kept things interesting and dynamic.

[Cynthia Daniel]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Ah, but it is. Think about it from the point of view of a new member who has not shown their work here and is unsure of what response they may receive.

I understand exactly what you are saying, Steven, and am not blaming anyone for the situation.

I am simply pointing out why I believe there is such a high number of people who have been juried in and who have never posted.

This Forum is not just about posting one's work for critique and it's not just about learning to paint. It's also about exchanging ideas, tips, resources, marketing ideas, experiences in workshops, etc. One can join and never post for critique. That is totally optional. We always hope to find new talent who will do critiques so it doesn't always just fall on a few.

So, I don't think the lack of posting is just about lack of critique response. There are some who have been approved for membership who really are so good they are beyond critiques and they probably know it.

I do think that putting the password on the critiques area makes it cumbersome and less frequented, but was done at the request of a few members who didn't want their work seen by the general public.

Enzie's comments


Since I can't post in Enzie's thread, I thought I would post here (congrats Enzie on great comments!). Perhaps getting new moderators for some of the sub-fora would work: some moderators just never participate and their fora are virtually dead: for example, the historical thread and artists of the past, but there are others.

Put out a call for new moderators and see what happens (Cynthia, I am sure there are knowledgeable people out there, who are willing to do this). I like Sharon's engagement and involvement, and see her as a model for what other moderators could do in stimulating discussion and participation. If a moderator doesn't have that time or engagement then perhaps it's time for them to "retire."

Also, there used to be a whole lot of materials and techniques discussions, grafted on the tradition and the past and there's almost none left. Finding some key players with interests and expertise in the field would work, instead of endless threads about photographic references and digital cameras.

Finally, allow me to say that some forum members are a bit narcissistic: they never comment on other's work, but expect to be cuddled when they place a piece of theirs in the critiques section. It doesn't work that way....

Marvin's comments


I just posted a reply called "Enzie's comments," and also wanted to add something to Marvin's comments.

I agree with him that something seems to be "broke": frankly, I believe that the forum needs some more engaging and engaged moderators (at least for some of the threads), just like if this were a business, one would be looking for new, more engaged managers. There used to be high brow artisits on the forum; now it seems only Whitaker and Mattelson are left.

Why not stimulate the participation of other established artsits, for example, by offering them a guest column or something similar? Focus on technique, I would add, and the participating members will come flocking to the forum.

Sybilla

Suggestions on how to improve participation on the forum


Perhaps the SOG forum could improve member participation by adding a few more interactive features

Although I'm not a member of WetCanvas, I do like their "classical artist of the month" feature. SOG might consider a similar rubric centered on classical portrait artists of the past. Artists essential to the field that come to mind are Anthony van Dyck (Belgian, 17th century), Velasquez (Spanish, 17th century), and Sargent (Anglo-American 19th century).

Sure, some threads exist about some of these artists, but by nominating them to artist of the month, the discussion becomes more focused. Members could add web sites, photos of these artists' work, or could decide to make a copy of the chosen artist. Same for technique and media: have the moderator of that forum choose a particular techique for the month, say scumbling, and invite replies from members. In other words, try to reorganize some of the threads and make them time-sensitive by nominating topics to topic/technique/artist of the month. Same for colors, surfaces, grounds, brushes, the possibilities are endless.

Crucial note: moderators of these threads should have the time to participate in a meaningful way. I'm sure we all appreciate the time and work of the existing moderators, but it is a given that some don't seem to have the time any more, so consider replacing them by individuals who do.

Sybilla

[Enzie Shahmiri]

Sybilla,

I like your idea of artist of the month. Check out my blog on Ludwig Deutsch.
Something similar would make it fun, wouldn't it?!

[blockquote]Same for colors, surfaces, grounds, brushes, the possibilities are endless. [/blockquote] Excellent idea!

Maybe one of the moderators can please move Sybilla's suggestions over to the other discussion about how to improve the forum's participation.

[Cynthia Daniel]

There are a lot of good ideas here. I do have some comments and clarifications:

1. The only responsibility of a moderator is basically administrative. To oversee topics, make sure they are in the right section, move them when not, merge when they should be merged, make sure things stay on topic, make sure members are not tearing each others eyes out. All other participation by moderators is optional.

2. I've said this before, but it bears repeating. The Forum is secondary to the main site, unlike WetCanvas where the Forum is basically the site. This Forum was created for either professionals or those that are highly dedicated to reaching that and show promise in that direction. There might be a few Sunday painters that are so talented that they might be members. I'm just talking about the main focus. The purpose is to offer a platform where practicing artists can exchange information AND, hopefully, contribute to the growth of others. This might be simply by giving a meeting place since portrait painting is a lonely profession. Part of the problem is that those who are very successful often don't have the time to participate.

3. Finding new moderators is not an easy task. Not many are willing to take that on. I haven't seen any volunteers yet in this rather lengthy and interesting thread. And, there are certain standards for moderators - such as a history of helpful and diplomatic participation and a certain quality level in their work. There are a number of people I have asked in the past who did not have the time. Putting a greater responsibility on a moderator could make that task even more difficult.

4. I have in the past planned to have contemporary guest artists who would do a step by step demonstration. There were a couple tentatively lined up, but they never came through.

So, all these things take time and thought, not only for me but for the moderators and Board. I personally rarely participate in the Forum any more. With over 150 artists wanting my design skills, there just is not time.

If someone would like to volunterr for something, speak up and I can submit it to the Board.

[Thomasin Dewhurst]

I agree that it would be energising to have an artist of the month feature, although perhaps focusing as well on the actual forum members would be more stimulating. Or perhaps even painting of the month. I suggest we have a new section for monthly features, activities etc. with Enzie as moderator. I think with the energy and incentive that Enzie has for doing this, it would make a valuable and most interesting addition to the forum.

I would also suggest a section for members work that is not portrait or figure might also be useful, although I know that this kind of thing was voted out in the past in order to keep the forum focussed on portraiture. I think, though, that a number of members are doing other kinds of work and would like to post them here. I, for my part, know that my landscape sketches really do inform and develop my figurative work, and I would very much like to post them as a compliment to my figure paintings.