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12-18-2007, 07:39 PM
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#1
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Juried Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Blackfoot Id
Posts: 431
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Hi Alan, what in heaven's name is "painter's syndrome" ?!?
I suppose a petroleum chemist would be familiar with "isoparaffin 222". Here's the deal. Mineral spirits in all its grades and species is a petroleum distillate, and an aromatic hydrocarbon. Breathe enough of it, and you'll get sick.
IMO, there is only one acceptable "turpentine" for oil painting, and that is the distillate of gum collected from Georgia (USA) pines, and in previous times from similar conifers in Portugal.
To the best of my knowledge, no one has removed the odor from pure spirits of gum turpentine. Why would you ? It doesn't smell bad, and most of these materials nowadays are going into air-fresheners and cleaning compounds so that they will smell "pine fresh".
Turpenoid is not a "natural" (vegetable, if you will) solvent, but a mineral spirits variant.
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12-18-2007, 07:48 PM
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#2
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Juried Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: 8543-dk Hornslet, Denmark
Posts: 1,642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Bingham
Hi Alan, what in heaven's name is "painter's syndrome" ?!?
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It's the name, in Denmark, for the disease painters get when exposed to too many fumes from turps, one forgets, much like lead poisoning.
I never use Mineral Spirit for deluding artist color, only Vegetable Turps ( also called "French Turpentine" )
I would use the Isoparaffine 222 for cleaning brushes, I think that the smell of Vegetable Turps is delicious but it can be a little too much sometimes.
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12-19-2007, 01:49 PM
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#3
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UNVEILINGS MODERATOR Juried Member
Joined: May 2005
Location: Narberth, PA
Posts: 2,485
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Although I consider myself an artist rather than an "artiste," I use odorless solvent (Gamsol). The reason is that I became very sensitive to the regular turpentine (any form including gum). Whenever I painted with it, by the end of the day I developed respiratory problems. Odorless solvent reduces this problem dramatically, perhaps because it doesn't evaporate as fast? I'm not really sure why, but for whatever reason it works for me.
Allan, it sounds like this product might be simply another brand of petroleum-based odorless solvent.
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12-19-2007, 02:30 PM
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#4
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Juried Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Blackfoot Id
Posts: 431
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Alexandra, please don't take my rough humor re/"arteestes" as an affront. I tend to wax a bit radical over: a. how the state of art instruction through the last 100 years or so has short-changed the physical, craftsman-oriented aspects of the art of painting, and b. those who see the dearth of painters knowledgeable about their materials as an opportunity to tout otherwise cheaply available common items as something "uniquely special" . . . at ten times the price.
Any sensitivity to even "good" turps you have experienced only proves that a definite qualitative difference between pure gum turpentine and mineral spirits exists. My father, who was an active painter all of his adult life developed a contact dermatitis from turpentine when he was in his late 60's. As mysteriously and sudden as it came on, it left him in the same manner within a few months. There are people who are allergic to roses, common house plants, pets and foods . . . of course you have to maintain your personal comfort level. That's only sensible.
The vapor pressures and hence the emissions from either odorless MS or good turpentine are so close as to be a negligible difference.
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12-19-2007, 03:50 PM
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#5
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UNVEILINGS MODERATOR Juried Member
Joined: May 2005
Location: Narberth, PA
Posts: 2,485
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Richard, I truly wasn't offended--just a friendly jab. I couldn't resist.
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12-19-2007, 07:41 PM
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#6
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Juried Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: 8543-dk Hornslet, Denmark
Posts: 1,642
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I will buy a bottle of the stuff tomorrow and ask if they have additional information to the information in the catalog.
It is an old artist materials shop in
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12-20-2007, 07:44 PM
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#7
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Juried Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: 8543-dk Hornslet, Denmark
Posts: 1,642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra Tyng
it doesn't evaporate as fast?
Allan, it sounds like this product might be simply another brand of petroleum-based odorless solvent.
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I bought some today and I can see that it is a petroleum product that has been treated in a way that removed the harmful parts.
I can smell that it is petroleum if I put my nose to the bottle but it's very mild.
One other question: How do you ( and others) use it for painting? Do you add drying oil to it to make a medium? The prolonged evaporation time could be an attractive function since I often mix a pile of paint that dries up before I have used it.
I usually use a mixture of 1 part stand oil, 1 part linseed oil with drier added, 3 parts vegetable turpentine.
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12-20-2007, 11:09 PM
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#8
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Juried Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Blackfoot Id
Posts: 431
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[QUOTE=Allan Rahbek]I . . . treated in a way that removed the harmful parts. . . I can smell that it is petroleum . . .
No doubt some components are removed from the mineral spirits along with the "odor". Don't rely on that. Any aromatic hydrocarbon that evaporates into the air is harmful if the concentration is high enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan Rahbek
How do you ( and others) use it for painting? . . .
I usually use a mixture of 1 part stand oil, 1 part linseed oil with drier added, 3 parts vegetable turpentine.
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Allan, it's just a solvent. As such, it is more or less useful to reduce the viscosity of heavier vehicles, such as stand oil. I believe you mentioned you would use it for cleaning brushes? Good idea. There is no good reason to replace pure spirits of gum turpentine with this stuff in your painting practice. Turps is better for your paint films.
The subject of mediums is a minefield. I question why you mix linseed oil (with a drier) and stand oil with a solvent (turps) ?? What do you feel this accomplishes?
In the main, a useful "medium" centers around a natural resin chosen for the spcific properties it imparts to the quality of a paint film, either for its visual character or handling. Mastic, Copal, Damar, all are capable of imparting notably different qualities when added to paint. Canada Balslam, Strasbourg Turpentine, Venice Turpentine impart yet another, but are so similar to one another as to yield near identical results, although each most certainly has identifiable individual characteristics.
A medium that includes resins needs to be balanced with enough linseed oil to remain flexible. Whether the oil is heat-treated (as stand oil is) is yet another variable.
Finally, the combination of oil and resin usually requires the addition of a solvent to control viscosity and possibly drying time.
Allan, if you are employing a mix of oils, turps and a siccative, the addition of the siccative would be the cause of your paint drying on the palette sooner than you may like to see.
Perhaps your new-found solvent is less volatile than turpentine. If so, yes, it would slightly retard the drying time of a given paint (minus the siccative in the mix). To answer this question, one need only place small equal amounts of each in open containers, and note any difference in the rate of evaporation. A clean glass palette is ideal for this test, and would have the added advantage of allowing you to ascertain whether the petroleum product leaves any residues.
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12-21-2007, 07:35 AM
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#9
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Juried Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: 8543-dk Hornslet, Denmark
Posts: 1,642
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[QUOTE=Richard Bingham I believe you mentioned you would use it for cleaning brushes? Good idea. There is no good reason to replace pure spirits of gum turpentine with this stuff in your painting practice. Turps is better for your paint films..
The subject of mediums is a minefield. I question why you mix linseed oil (with a drier) and stand oil with a solvent (turps) ?? What do you feel this accomplishes?[/QUOTE]
I will use it for cleaning brushes and it works fine for that.
But I came to think that, if it is only a solvent and it leaves no residue in the form of paraffin ( the white greasy stuff that never dries) I might as well use it for deluding my paint also.
Real vegetable turpentine leaves a small amount of oil / resin which is good for the thinned paint.
If I use the Petrol with Stand Oil the two elements will balance each other. The Stand oil is "partly dried Linseed oil" and will not wrinkle when drying, it leaves the dry oil paint more glossy than raw Linseed oil does.
I also use 1 part of Linseed Oil with siccative because I use Titanium White that takes forever to dry.
Ps.
I tested Mineral Spirit, Odorless Solvent and Vegetable Turpentine by letting the three evaporate from my glass palette. Only the Vegetable Turpentine left something on the glass after the solvent had evaporated.
Anyway, it seems that the OS would be harmless to use in a mixture and that is also what the label said.
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12-21-2007, 05:43 PM
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#10
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'09 Third Place PSOA Ohio Chapter Competition
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 1,483
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I am posting prematurely because I need to confirm the details with my friend and artist Larry Leach. he is a very wonderful landscape artists who also is an artist who represents Winsor and Newton. and he has been teaching and painting for over thirty years.
but until I hear back from him, this is what I remember him saying at his workshops. Turpentine and Turpenoid are no different. Our bodies absorb the fumes at the same percentages, it just that they have treated turpenoid so that it does not smell. This does not nimimize the harm it does to our bodies.
Gamsol is difference and this is where I want to get the right information for you. All I know is that the percentage of what we absorb from Gamsol is minimul compared to Turps. In many art colleges in this country Gamsol is the only solvent they allow in the studios.
Personally, I have been taught by Marvin that one only needs refined linseed oil, as the old masters used. It is natural, will not break down the oil paint and is a very good paint thinner (though if you use too much you will discover you can't work with the paint - it is a delicate balance). Marvin NEVER used solvents and his thin layers are quite thin! As for cleaning the brushes Marvin goes so far as to clean them with only walnut oil, which is quite expensive. I started to clean my brushes this way but found I could not afford the walnut oil for this purpose. So I do hold my breath and clean them with solvents, when wash them out with soap and water.
I hope this helps a bit. I will dig through my notes if I do not hear from Larry and get you more scientific information.
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