Moria (Girl with a crystal earring)

[Holly Snyder]

The increased color saturation (and sharpening?) really brings her to life. I particularly like the variation in colors that you have in her face, more reds, blues and yellows than I've seen in your other pieces. Beautiful. Does the background contain blue? If so, is some of that same blue mixture on the cheek and neck in shadow and under her eyes? Or is that a mixture of black and white?

Given that we have similar Nikon digital cameras, it's interesting that your digital images appear to yellow. Mine are always too red (warm) on my monitor and printer, and I have to increase the blue and green channels in the levels in Photoshop, as well as decrease the red saturation. It can be so frustrating when prints don't match the monitor. I seem to remember that you calibrated your monitor with a hardware/software package, but the package didn't work on your printer?

Holly

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Hi Marvin,

Just out of curiosity, what value would you assign her forehead or cheek? And what value to the shadow side of her face or under her neck? Somehow you have made her seem so lifelike and 3 dimensional, but the value range within her face doesn't seem so large . . . at least not when compared to the dark value of her hair.

I guess I thought this type of 3-dimensionality was accomplished through a wide range of values, but you seem to have done it without that large range. You'll probably tell me you did this with changes in temperature? That's what I keep reading on the forum, but I am yet to understand how this can work.

Thank you for any light you can shed on this,

Joan

[Marvin Mattelson]

Joan, the values in her face range from almost white (value 9 3/4) down to almost black (value 1 in her nostril) and black (value zero) in her pupils. I'd say that's a pretty good range. The cheek value averages about 3 1/2. Her right cheek and forehead average around 8, not counting the highlights. The scumbling adds great translucency and provides much depth. Keeping the values massed is the key. In other words, separating the the light and shadow values. This provides strength of form. I am not the least bit concerned with color temperature changes due to the ambiguity of those terms. I feel that identifying the hue, value and chroma of each color shape is much more precise for me.

Holly there are no blues used in the light. No black mixed with white. Just neutrals. When warm lights are scumbled over warm darks the resulting colors look cool. The background contains ultramarine blue in the scumble mixture and that same mixture was added to create the reflected light in the shadows. The reflected light under her chin is about a fifth value at the lightest point.

My monitor is perfectly calibrated except for when I'm using Photoshop. In Photoshop everything appears too yellow. The prints I make are stunningly real, relative to the colors of what I'm photographing, even though I print out of Photoshop. The Nikon Capture software appears too yellow as well, but the color is perfect in the Nikon View software. Go figure!?!

[Elizabeth Schott]

The color of the photos I take with my Nikon D70 appear much too yellow when I bring them into Photoshop, so I may have over corrected them to try to compensate.TYhey aren't really blueish. I guess I've still got plenty of fiddling around to do. Also I have a Mac so I want them to look good on PC's as well. The weird thing is that they print out perfectly on my printer.

HA!

Marvin, this is one of my favorites, I think you have caught an amazing amount of personality in this dancer. I think you are too modest when it comes to your demo experience, because what Denise failed to also mention - besides the Q&A - is the entertainment value of the artist!

Bravo!

[Marvin Mattelson]

Beth, I'm more fun than a barrel of monkeys! I thought that was a given. And I clean up more easily. My main goal in every painting is to capture the light on and the life in my sitter, so I'm glad you connected with her. I learned so much doing this painting. Painting from life is the key to heaven.

Thank you Sharon. I really wish you could see this one in person. I painted on this one for six days. After the first few days my students kept saying, "How much farther can you take it?" I think it really set the bar, which was my intention to begin with.

[Holly Snyder]

When every digital image file is viewed, there's a color space that your software package (Photoshop, PaintShop Pro, etc.) uses to display the information in a file as colors. There's a second color space that defines how the information in the digital file will be translated to any particular ink/paper combination for printing. So how an image is displayed in software is not how it will print.

How your image is displayed will depend on what you have your color space set to in your Nikon (some other digital cameras have color space settings also). The RGB color space setting attaches a color space profile (.icc file) to the digital image file, which will be read and applied in Photoshop and Nikon Capture, but very possibly not Nikon View. I haven't tried either of the Nikon software packages, but Nikon View may just be a simple application, and not set up for dealing with the complexity of color spaces. Or, if you're using a different color space setting on the camera, which doesn't attach a profile, try changing the default working space in Photoshop. I don't have the full Photoshop, only Elements, which only has three choices for color space in the Edit menu under Color Settings. I'm sure there's a similar setting in Nikon Capture.

For printing, either you can use the settings in your print driver, i.e. choosing the type of paper, etc. This will use the color space defined by the manufacturer for your particular printer/ink/paper, and is how the majority of people print, as it usually produces adequate results. Or, if you have had your printer/paper combination calibrated with a hardware/software package, in Photoshop Elements you can use color management in the Print Preview dialogue and attach the color space (.icc file) that the calibration produced. I'm sure it's similar for the full version of Photoshop. If you're getting excellent printed results, I would guess that you're using a specific calibrated icc profile for your printer/paper, unless perhaps you're lucky enough that the default color space defined by the manufacturer for your printer driver is excellent. A side note: if you're attaching a color space profile for printing in Photoshop, you have to turn off the color adjustment settings in your printer driver (exactly how depends on the driver) so that you're not double-profiling. Double-profiling, essentially telling the printer to use two different color spaces, can produce pretty funky results!

Anyway, that may be more than you wanted to know, and maybe this isn't appropriate to post this in your thread, but I hope it's helpful.

Holly

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Originally Posted by Marvin Mattelson

Joan, the values in her face range from almost white (value 9 3/4) down to almost black (value 1 in her nostril) and black (value zero) in her pupils. I'd say that's a pretty good range. The cheek value averages about 3 1/2. Her right cheek and forehead average around 8, not counting the highlights.

Thank you Marvin, this is exactly what I was curious about. I should have clarified, when I said "Somehow you have made her seem so lifelike and 3 dimensional, but the value range within her face doesn't seem so large . . . at least not when compared to the dark value of her hair.", I was referring specifically to the skin tones, and not the nostrils or pupils.

Her cheek didn't look so dark to me (3 1/2), that's why I was asking. So I think you have proved to me that that wide range of values in skin tones is necessary to successfully show form.

thanks again,

Joan

[Marvin Mattelson]

Holly, thanks for taking the time to type out all this info.I started the thread so you have my permission to respond in any way you like. (Not that what I say counts for much!) I am aware of all the above info you posted. I've been into color management for years and yes I'm using icc profiles in my printer. The yellow problem in Photoshop started when I installed Photoshop CS and switched to Mac OS X. I actually called Nikon asking them what the problem was. They said that both Nikon software programs should look the same.Maybe I'll call back when I get a chance. I've checked all my color management settings In Nikon and Photoshop applications but alas, YELLOW!!!!!

Joan, it's not the range of values in any one area but the painting's overall arrangement that creates the illusion of form.

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Originally Posted by Marvin Mattelson

painting's overall arrangement

Marvin,

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean Do you mean it's the overall range of values in the entire painting that's important?

But . . . . to make a circle look like a ball, isn't it the range of values that makes it look like a ball? Even if it's a small range, that range is necessary, right? Or is that what you're saying, only a small range is necessary and I shouldn't get hung up on a large range of values?

Sorry to be harping on this value thing, but I'm feeling dense right now since I thought I understood what made a form 3d.

Joan

[Marvin Mattelson]

If you gave everything the fullest range of values possible you would create visual confusion. This is called over-modeling. If you over-model each area you lose the big relationships. The proper relationship between light and shadow areas would be destroyed if you expanded the value range of each. They would overlap value-wise and lose their separation and actually flatten out. The relationship between light and shadow is what creates form. The modeling enhances this effect but is at best secondary. Throw a thin halftone transition between the two main values, add a highlight, reflected light, accents and voila! Form!