Underpainting with RU

[Richard Budig]

Folks:

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. Juan asks "which old masters?" Well, Juan, I suppose that was a rhetorical reference . . . all of them so to speak. I've just become interested in this technique, and, in fact, I've been developing my own glazing techniques that are probably different, yet the same, in some ways, from any of those old masters.

Rather than going through the RU, or black/white/gray underpainting, I've been using rather bold colors in the direction in which I'm interested in going, and then glazing over them.

For example, where I'd like to have a real warm, old wooden barn wall -- an interior view -- I'll paint it in somewhat garish reds, and then come back and glaze in various quantities of burnt umber/alizarin/Ivory black. You get the idea. These glazes cut the garish quality of raw red, let the red shine through, change things to a darkish, orangish, reddish look that seems thin and transparent. You can add a touch of blue (ultramarine or cobalt, also, which further tempers the strong red.

As I say, I'm doing this mostly to get the concept, and, also, to see what happens. It's all new to me, so it's fun, too. I must say that using glazes for the backgrounds, and opaques for the lights, and those items in the foreground, provides some interesting ways of seeing things. The opaque things seem to bounce forward while the background/shadow seem to have depth. But, of course, this is one of the reason for doing all this.

I may adopt glazing, but in a limited way. For now, it's a learning process for me. If anyone has any other ideas for me, I'd like hearing them.

If I have one REAL complaint, it is that my art education has been so hit and miss. I learn where I can, and not always in the order the information would be presented in a formal school setting. So, as you might suspect, I get a hunk of something that is a light year ahead of where I am, then them a bit of something that is well behind where I am, and I'm left in the middle, trying to sort out just where I am and what I have actually learned. In the end, though, it is fun, and I'd rather try to make art than anything else.

[Karin Wells]

For those of you who don't understand how beautiful the technique of underpainting and glazing can be, I'd like to invite you to see Scott Bartner's important demo here (his finished painting shown below): http://forum.portraitartist.com/show...2&page=1&pp=10

Properly done, glazes do not "weaken" paint. You can look at any Vermeer or DaVinci and see how these delicate glazes have withstood the test of time.

Scott, do you teach?

[Michele Rushworth]

Marvin, you wrote:

Besides which, using little paint and lots of medium ( the essence of glazing) makes for a weak paint film.

As I understand it, glazing should not involve lots of medium. It is done by applying a physically very thin layer of transparent paint, at the consistency it is when it comes straight from the tube.

[Leslie Bohoss]

Hi !

I found an interesting Page to painter techniques (Old Masters) written by V.Elliott:
http://www.geocities.com/~jlhagan/advanced/chapter6.htm

Cheers!

[Scott Bartner]

In response to recent critical remarks regarding underpainting and glazing, I wanted to share a portion of a message to me regarding this thread. It is from E. Melanie Gifford, PhD, Research Conservator for Painting Technology at the National Gallery of Art in Washington, D.C.

[COLOR=Navy]

[Marvin Mattelson]

[QUOTE= E. Melanie Gifford, PhD, Research Conservator for Painting Technology at the National Gallery of Art in Washington, D.C.]"The painter has to chose the working methods that work for him.

[Michele Rushworth]

Michele, if you just use the paint thinly, straight from the tube, then why are there countless recipes and products specified as glazing mediums?

There's lots of stuff out there on the market that I wouldn't use, or that might detract from the longevity of a painting. Just because someone makes it and sells a lot of it doesn't necessarily mean it's the right stuff.

[Minh Thong]

Speaking of glazes being 'cleaned off' over time, I just finished a book on painting conservation by Keck (written in 1965) where she mentions a few cases of this very thing. And while reading it, I began to wonder, what do you pros do to ensure that your relatively few glazed passages are not 'cleaned off' in the future?

Here's my problem: I have developed a habit of glazing Alizarin over a portrait to appropriately redden checks, noses, or ears, in addition to glazing clothing and sometimes shadows on the face. Since these glazes will be the very last layers of color within the portrait, how could one best ensure that a future cleaning wouldn't remove these passages when the varnish is stripped off and re-applied?

What do you guys do?

Minh Thong
(For the record, I'm quite sure I have not yet painted anything that will be around long enough to need cleaning. However, I'm still curious because I stubbornly cling to the hope of finding a teacher before I'm so old my eyesight is gone and I am forced to explore scultpure. )

[Scott Bartner]

Dear Minh:

In Keck

[Minh Thong]

Thanks Scott.

So today's varnishes, not being as strong as that previously used, merely will require less rubbing for removal, thus sparing the upper glazed layers? I've noticed my Rambrandt Permenant Madder seems quite 'fragile' when retouch varnish is applied (I've lifted it off when retouching after a month drying), so I was thinking cleaning down the road would take it right off. Again, as you can see from my newest avatar, I still have quite a ways to go before I need to worry about this kind of thing. But you never know.

I have the Gamblin kit, but haven't used it yet. So far, I have only retouch varnished (Damar/Turps) the few things I want to save or have sold/given away, but I have two semi-keepers coming due for a final varnish any time now.

Thanks again ...

Minh