Basic pastel questions

Hello,

I am new to this site. Thank you Chris Saper for telling me about it. I dont know much about pastels and would appreciate any help regarding these questions. Please keep in mind my goal is to achieve a very real, blended portrait. I am using Rembrandt soft pastels.

1) When painting a light-skinned white person what color of paper is recommended, or does it matter?

2) Do all fixatives change the color of the pastels? I have been using Blair.

3) With the type of portrait I wish to create, is the fixative used as the last step or at differnt stages?

4) If the fixative by accident touches a part of the paper with out pastel on it does this effect its ability to hold layers of color? If so what can I do to stop this?

5) What texture and name brand of paper is reccomended to create this soft real apprenance?

6) What step by step practice book is on the market to help me get the results I am looking for?

7) Do any of the artist offer or know of online classes?

Thank you, Winnie

[Gwenneth Barth]

Hi Winnie,

I use Canson paper on the smooth side for pastels. (There's an exhibit here in Geneva on Jean-Etienne Liotard's (18th century) pastels, many of which are painted on parchment...beautiful surface!).

Midtones are good for light-skinned faces, although this depends on the lighting.
I build up pastels first with pastel pencils (Othello), then nu-pastels (that are harder and can be sharpened), and the finally with a variety of soft pastels ranging from the harder Rembrandt, to Schmincke, and finally the softest, Sennelier.

Fixative used lightly shouldn't darken the colours too much (although sometimes the lights need to be touched up somewhat)...it's often used anytime to restore some tooth to the surface.

Good luck!
Gwenneth

[Meredith Wagenknecht]

Hi Winnie and Gwenneth!

I am also a fan of the smooth side of the paper...I don't like the "paper towel effect" of the waffle-like texture of the other side! I have posted a picture for critique only once (see Mary Lynn in Pastel under critiques). You can see there that I too am a pastelist who likes to blend. I don't find that the darker tones of paper affect much the skin tone of a very light person...just takes a little more effort to overcome the tone of the paper, I guess.

I'm hardly an expert, though (as you will see if you read on). Actually, I guess I could use some advice myself. A couple of times I've had problems with the pastel "disappearing" or "lifting off" the paper after completion and spraying with Grumbacher Myston workable in matte (I usually don't spray at different stages).

I would take the piece back (this happened twice, and one lady drove me NUTS with this!) and touch it up, then spray again. This one lady, though, kept insisting the piece was continuously losing pastel. Some of her perceptions I feel were imagined, but, in fact, I DID detect (in both cases) more paper tones appearing through (especially noticable in the lighter areas) upon closer inspection.

So, could my opening comment about darker toned paper be the cause of this? Or too much fixative? How about humidity levels?? These problems arose when I was living in south-central Kentucky. I'm back home in southern New Jersey, and the summertime humidity levels here are similar...somewhat soggy! I live near the shore, too. I don't recall, though, if these pieces were framed before "losing" the pastel. I think the one was, and the other lady who drove me nuts waited quite a while before having the piece framed, and then had it unframed to bring back.

Thanks for letting me voice my concerns on your thread Winnie. Sorry I couldn't be of much help! Also, I use Rembrandts, Van Goghs, Conte pastel pencils, thinner pastel pencils, a couple of Windsor Newtons, some Nu Pastels, Grumbachers (which I picked up on sale at Pearl and haven't used yet), and the fat, square, cheap ones whose name escapes me at the moment.

Did I mention?? Go to yard sales! I bought an unused set of 24 Grumbachers (an old set, too) for $1.00!! Last year, I picked up at another yard sale some vine charcoal, pens and nibs, paints for my husband, etc. Do, the moral is, you never know what you'll find!

Meredith

[Chris Saper]

Hi Winnie,

Here are my thoughts on the questions you pose:

1. The color of the paper is mainly dependent on the value design you want for your painting, and certainly whether it will be a vignette. If you will be covering the entire surface, a toned paper works well when it represents the dominant value. If you have a lot of darks, it is, as you know, difficult to cover a light ground well, unless you use a surface (like Wallis paper) that takes an underpainting well. If your piece is predominantly dark, it works well to go with a little darker value. If I am underpainting, I underpaint directly on the white Wallis paper. If I am painting the entire surface, and also if I am painting a vignette, I will typically use a middle or middle light grayed-down green surface, regardless of the value of my subject's skin. It is a rare circumstance that you would show anyone's skin without warmth in its hue, and therefore the green acts as a complement to the warmth of human skin, and looks wonderful when it shows through. It adds a cool element that can be very subtle, but very important,as well.

In painting a vignette, both color and value of the surface count. I prefer to stay with cooler colors, whether green, red, etc, and desaturated colors. However, I have used yellows and ochres when my subject is primarily cool. There's no substitue for experimenting!

In summary, I think the design, value plan and mood of the piece are much more important than the value of the subject's skin.

2/3/4. I have had such poor experiences with fixatives, I don't use them and can't help.

5. You can get a velvety smooth surface with Canson (yes, use the smooth side), La Carte (Sennelier), Art Spectrum, and Sabretooth. I think the La Carte is easiest to control.Wallis has a very stong tooth, but if you build layers, you can get a smooth look as well. Ther may be others as well, I just don't have any experience with them.

6. There are not a lot of technique oriented books out there, try Harley Brown's "Eternal Secrets for Every Artist". Wende Caporale's, "Painting Children's Portraits in Pastel" has a number of step-by-step examples, and she focuses on the light-skinned subject. Best though, is to order Daniel Greene's video tape, Erica, as you can actually watch what is going on.

7. I don't know of any on-line classes, but check out the Pastel Journal, which publishes in every issue an enormous list of pastel-focused workshops. Identify the painters you admire most and then attend their workshops.

Good luck amd welcome to the Forum!

Chris

[Geri Comicz]

Hi all,

I was wondering if I could have a definition of terminology that I have heard and don't have a complete understanding of the meaning in terms of pastels.

Chris, I first read the terms in your book, which I find absolutely refreshing. Thank you.

The terms being "saturated" and "unsaturated". I understand the terms in reference to wetness but what is the meaning in reference to a dry medium as pastel? The best I can come up with in the dictionary is: Saturated: containing no white; of the greatest intensity. Soo, Unsaturated would mean color containing a great deal of white? Forgive my ignorance. I would just like to understand. Geri

P. S. And where would one find the video from Daniel Greene, "Erica"

[Chris Saper]

Hi Geri,

Saturated in this sense means the purest possible color; sometimes it is referred to as color intensity. The most intense, or most saturated colors are located along the outer edge of any color wheel. When you mix any color with its complement, it starts to become less intense (pure) and more neutral. When two complements are mixed in balance, you will get lovely neutrals, that are called complementary grays. (Not gray in the sense of what happens when you mix black and white). Colors that are located somewhere in the interior of the color wheel are desaturated...those in the very center are completely desaturated..in other words, the complementary grays. So saturated here has nothing to do with wetness.

The addition of white or black to a pure color diminshes its intensity, although not in the same rich way that the complement does.

Ordering info for Erica is in my Recommended Resources (Appendix A), Signilar 800-205-4904

Good luck!

[Geri Comicz]

Hi Chris,

Ahhhhh! Thank you. In my oil days we just called it pure color or greyed down color, understanding completely that one would grey with its complement. Unless, of course, you wanted a special color made with blacks, whites, paynes etc.

Thanks for your quick response. I was very confused. I have to get up with all the new terminology. Thanks again. geri

[Virgil Elliott]

Pastellists would be well advised to do lightfastness testing of their colors, if they are at all concerned for the future permanence of their paintings. Golden sells a lightfastness test kit that makes it easy, if you have a south-facing window available. I have been conducting some tests for ASTM, and it has become glaringly obvious to me that the popular notion that pastels are permanent is not necessarily realistic. The rate and degree of fading varies tremendously from color to color and from manufacturer to manufacturer.

ASTM will be writing a lightfastness standard for pastels, and much more testing remains to be done in the process. You will be hearing more about this in the future.

I enjoyed working in pastel from time to time, but until I have a very good idea which colors I can trust not to fade, I won't be using them again. Too much effort goes to waste when our creations change too rapidly into something different.

Virgil Elliott

[Gwenneth Barth]

Hi Meredith,

About the pastel flaking away, Ralph Mayer has an interesting paragraph in his book, 'The Artist's Handbook of Materials and Techniques', where he states that if too much fixative is applied, the pastel will adhere rather to the fixative than to the support, it seems that in this case the fixative would actually pull the pastel from the paper.

I've also witnessed a real nightmare at a clients home (who was understandably ordering oils this time). A pastel that she'd ordered several years back had been framed with the glass directly on the surface (without a mat!!), and, you guessed it! With static, the pastel layer had clung to the glass. Still, when all the rules are respected, isn't it a beautiful technique?

Best wishes!
Gwenneth

Administrator's Note: Click on book title to see it at Amazon.com.

[Meredith Wagenknecht]

Gwenneth,

I agree....pastels are a "good thing"! I'll have to check out Mr Mayer's book...I regret to say that I'm not up on all of the latest technology. Although I am not usually involved in the framing aspect, I always educate the client as to the importance of NEVER letting glass touch the surface, and that if a mat-less look is desired, make sure the framer elevates the glass by building up a "buffer-zone" behind the frame, between it and the artwork. It very well could be a case of too much fixative, thinking that more was needed to keep the darned pastels in place! But, now I know...thank you for your response...tsch