Working with the client

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Hello all,

I just completed my first two commissions, it was a good experience. My question is about the reference photos and the client. I painted a woman's two grandchildren. When she came to pick up the portraits at their completion, we ended up comparing the portraits to the reference photos I used. There was a question about the mouth on one of the grandchildren. Perhaps it was my mistake to pull out the reference photo and show her that yes, that's the way the mouth looks. These were portraits of her grandchildren, so possibly she wasn't that familiar with all their expressions. The grandchildren live out of town.

Certainly I would rather not have had to pull out the reference photos. On doing so, she noticed a couple of other teeny tiny things that she wanted fixed. They were minor things, I fixed them immediately and she was thrilled with the portraits. So it all ended well, in this case.

I took photos of the kids before I painted them and she wasn't picky about which pose I chose. She trusted me to use whichever pose, size, etc, I wanted. That was great. (Especially for my first commission experience.)

So, my question is, how do you avoid pulling out the reference photo when the client is approving the final portrait? The painting isn't a photographic copy of a reference photo, we all know that, but all the client knows is that she wants the painting to look like the kids - and all she had to go on was the reference photo. Any suggestions? How do you handle this? I just never dreamed I would have to pull out a reference photo at the end and have my work judged by that! . . . . . .I don't paint that realistically (I don't think) but naturally it's important to get the likeness in a portrait.

thank you,

Joan

[Ilaria Rosselli Del Turco]

Joan, once I was talking to a portrait agent: she said that she always had to reassure the client that the mouth was alright!

If I have doubts over the likeness I am happy to seek advice from the client, also some times to let them take part in the process washes away their doubts.
If I am 100% sure about the likeness I normally tell the client to collect the portrait and start to get used to it, and that some times the first impression might look wrong, but then the portrait will grow on them, and I offer to make a correction later on if they still think it is necessary.
Never ever pull out the reference, always claim you have worked from several photos and that there is not one that can be compared exactly.
I am sure you will get more advice, this is a sensible subject

Ilaria

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Originally Posted by Ilaria Rosselli Del Turco

always claim you have worked from several photos and that there is not one that can be compared exactly.
Ilaria

Dear Ilaria and Alex,

Thank you both for your reply. You are both saying the same thing! That I shouldn't show the client the reference photo. Thanks Alex for walking me through the process in great detail so I can prepare myself ahead of time for next time.

I think part of the problem this time, though it really wasn't much of a problem, was that this woman had no idea how the portraits were going to look. She came over with the grandchildren and I took photos. She was comfortable with not seeing any preliminary sketches or even which reference photos I was going to use, which was great. But, the downside was that she had no idea what to expect when she came over to get the portraits. I think I've learned, as you said Alex, to include the client a bit more in the process along the way. That way there will be no surprises. I'm probably very lucky she liked the poses I chose!

I have another commission in the works and this client and I have alread spent an hour looking at sample portraits for ideas. She doesn't know if she wants head and shoulders, 3/4, indoors or outdoors. She's the opposite of the first client I had!

Back to the reference photos . . . When I explain I used a number of ref. photos, I can just see someone saying "well, show me the reference photo you used for the mouth then". I guess I'll cross that bridge when and if I ever get to it. Meanwhile, I would try to focus more on their general impression of the painting. That's GREAT advice.

I will have to think long and hard about at what stage in the portrait I would invite them to come and look at it. I'm sure there are a lot of different opinions on this. Though from now on I think I will definitely show the client a color study or some kind of mock up of what I plan to do, even if they say "Oh, I trust you, do whatever you want".

thank you both for your helpful replies,

Joan

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Hi Michele,

Thank you for your reply. I was typing at the same time you did so didn't see your reply til just now.

Your reminder that there are a lot of different way to handle the same situation is well taken. I think I will have a better idea of the best way to handle it (for me) after a few more commissions.

I sure didn't like pulling out that reference photo though. We went from talking about the mouth to the eye, even the length of the little boys sideburns came into question!

I am concerned about the client getting surprised by the finished portrait though. Michele, what do you show the client before you begin the work? Do you show them a sketch of the pose, for example?

I would love to hear how anybody else handles this process too.

thank you,

Joan

[Michele Rushworth]

The client and I choose the reference photos together and I have them initial which ones they want me to use for the painting. I only show the ones I think would make a good portrait.

I also paint a small color study in oil (8x10 up to 16x20) of what the final painting will look like in terms of color, composition, cropping etc. I have them initial their approval on the back of that too, and request any modifications in writing.

Only then do I start the actual painting. That way everyone knows exactly what to expect before I spend a month or two on the portrait itself.

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Originally Posted by Michele Rushworth

The client and I choose the reference photos together and I have them initial which ones they want me to use for the painting. I only show the ones I think would make a good portrait.

This is my plan. It's funny, I read all about how the portrait process (specifically dealing with the clients) should go and I have a nice plan but then . . . . . it gets off track. I guess what I learned here is I need to be more in charge. They came to me for a service and I need to show them how to get the satisfactory end result. (Nicely, of course. )

thank you for sharing your process Michele,

Joan

[Alexandra Tyng]

Joan, I really sympathize with your dilemna and I think you hit on it right here:

Originally Posted by Joan Breckwoldt

we ended up comparing the portraits to the reference photos I used. . . . I would rather not have had to pull out the reference photos. . . . I just never dreamed I would have to pull out a reference photo at the end and have my work judged by that!

Sometimes we feel pressured into doing or saying something simply because we had no idea we would be asked to do something, or in this case because you wanted to prove that the mouth was indeed correct! We get put on the spot and lose control of the situation.

I agree with Ilaria that you should make it a policy never to pull out your reference photos and let the client compare them to the portrait. I'm sure you already can imagine ways in which this might turn out very annoyingly.

Instead, mentally prepare yourself that the client will have something to say. Invite the client to come in when you have done the initial block-in, so they feel part of the process. Then, when you feel you are nearing completion, call the client, say you are almost done, and invite them to make any comments they like. If they ask to see the reference photo, explain you don't work from just one photo, and what you are really interested in is their reaction to the painting. Does it look like the person? Does anything bother them? Is anything slightly off? Do NOT disagree with them! But tell them not to worry about how to fix it, that it's your job to figure out how to correct the problem. Listen with an open mind and understand this is a process you all must go through. Write down their comments if you wish. Then, after they are gone, look carefully at all your reference photos and see whether there is anything that could be causing the problem. A "wrong" mouth could actually be an incorrect proportion in an adjacent part of the face. It really is your job to double-check this. Hold the photo and the painting in the mirror if necessary. If you really don't feel a change is in order, you can always pretend you've worked on it (it's not a lie because you've at least considered it carefully) and often the client will be pleased the second time around. Once a client asked me to lighten the blue of a child's eye, which took me all of 2 minutes. But it made her happy. Tell your client that the portrait is not considered finished until they are satisfied. But once it is paid for, then that's it.

[Michele Rushworth]

Just as a point of contrast, there are a lot of ways other portrait artists handle this sort of thing. Some are happy to show the reference photo if requested.

Some invite client input/changes and some don't even permit it and take the approach "it's done when I say it's done". (Not sure how well that would go over with clients but I have heard of some artists who handle things that way.)

Some artists show their works-in-progress and some don't let anyone see the portrait until the artist is satisfied with it. (That's what I do.)

Do what works for you, knowing that there is really no one right way to handle it.