Wet vs. Dry mediums

Jesse C. Draper · 03-15-2002, 02:34 PM

I have seen some very beautiful pastel and charcoal work on this site. I would like thank Chris Saper for sharing her recent pastel work.

I have a question concerning wet vs. dry mediums. I wonder if I'm the only person who has a problem with this. I find it much easier to work with wet mediums than dry. I work with oils and waterclolours.

I find it is hard for me to work with charcoal and pastel. I really like the look of these mediums, but when I use them the dryness of the mediums becomes unbearable. Has anyone else had a similar problem? I think the feel of the medium is what is making them difficult for me to enjoy. Even having the powdery chalk on my fingers gives me trouble. Should I just give up on them, or tough it out and learn how to use them to their full extent? Does anyone have any good ways to combat my dry medium pet peeve?

Chris Saper · 03-15-2002, 04:06 PM

Dear Jesse,

I think it depends, in part, on the medium you start with...I still find the dry media much more malleable and forgiving, although, as I gain more experience with oil, I am finding it quite amenable to change, too. (and watercolor, what a beautiful and stressful medium!) A lot depends on your individual temperament, too. I use latex gloves with my pastels, keeps the fingers from drying out.

One of the most interesting uses of pastel I have ever seen is in Bill Hosner's work. He uses a sable brush and acetone to melt the pastel onto the page in a liquid form, and paints wet. He gets a fantastically beautiful surface quality.See some of Bill's beautiful work at www.williamhosnerfineart.com.

After going to the art spectrum site, I see that the surface should take any kind of liquid underpainting, so I'll try it when I get a chance.

The Wallis Sanded pastel paper still remains one of my favorites. If you have never seen it, it's a heavy archival paper that seems more a synthetic than a paper, even though it has a rag base. The tooth never fills up, it can take any type of liquid underpainting without buckling. One of the big advantages is that you can buy it by the roll (about 46" wide). As any pastel painter knows, it's nearly impossible to get commercially prepared papers in large sizes.You can increasingly find Wallis by the sheet at some art supply stores, or call Kitty Wallis at 800-760-7879 or [email protected]. Kitty, BTW, is a wonderful pastel painter.

So this is a very long-winded way of saying,don't give up on the pastel..it's a cat that be skinned many ways.

Thanks Chris

Lon Haverly · 03-15-2002, 10:13 PM

I get covered head to toe when I am busy drawing portraits in pastel and charcoal. I do not even realize it until I go for a bathroom break and need to wash my face, hands and neck. I wear a vinyl apron made of the same glossy banner material that my display is made of which can be washed off easily every day, but that hardly does it.

There is a great deal of dust. I use a fan when I am that busy to blow the dust away from my face so I don't get congested. I keep "Wet Ones" close by to clean off my hands (and face) after each drawing. I have to mop my floor every night so as to keep up the clean appearance required by the mall. I use flexible fabric bandaids without the cotton wrapped over my fingers and thumb to prevent cracking from dryness of the charcoal and pastel sticks (which also has become a vital tool in smearing the pastel for a watery look). I have a side table which has swing out drawers - one whole drawer for charcoals and sandpaper, in which the entire bottom is covered with the powder of the charcoal, which I use for drawing effects. I have made a special box for my pastels which has three compartments, (one for warm colors, one for cool colors, and one for flesh tones) with two layers; the top layer is a net stretched over a little balsa frame which the pastel pieces lay upon so that they to not lay right in the gray dust below. The second is a false bottom, which can be removed and cleaned often to rid the box of the dust and bits that break off.

I have learned to deal with the dust - it is just part of the gig. Hope this helps you to understand the nature of the dry media!

Karin Wells · 03-16-2002, 02:27 PM

I'm with Jesse on this one, I find it tough to deal with the dry stuff.

Chris, I looked at William Hosner's work. Can anything besides acetone be used to dissolve pastel?

I want to try it, but don't want to breathe it.

Chris Saper · 03-16-2002, 03:06 PM

Dear Karin,

I know that the Wallis paper can take pastels melted with turpenoid/turpentine, mineral spirits or rubbing alcohol. Water doesn't adhere the pigment to the surface very well. But it also accepts a watercolor oil or acrylic wash beautifully, too, and so lends itself to any type of media mix.

Chris

Karin Wells · 03-16-2002, 10:05 PM

I love the look and feel of pastel but I find that for detail work it feels as if I'm drawing with my elbows

I really don't know how to get a point on a soft pastel...and the hard pastels just seem to scratch the surface and not leave much of a mark.

Anyhow, I have some pastels and every now and then I try them and am humbled. The way I use them right now is when I have painted something and I wish to change a color or make a major change... I "paint" with pastels directly on the surface of my dry canvas "to try things out" before a major assault with paint.

Meanwhile, it struck a chord with me when you mentioned dissolving the pastels....I can't wait to play with this as I am soooo comfortable with a brush in my hand. I am in awe of your pastel portraits Chris. Also, thanks for the Wallis paper info.

Mike McCarty · 03-16-2002, 11:12 PM

The way I do it is like this: When I need to get down to the fine stuff, eyes mouth etc., I use a small "tortillon" (stub I calls it) which are those rolled up pieces of paper into a fairly sharp point (they come in all sizes). I take the sharp point of the stub and drag it across the soft pastel (I'm not fond of the hard stuff) and basically draw with the point of the stub. If it is a really fine line I will work it with a pastel pencil, but not so you would notice it was a pencil. I know you can sand those pieces of chalk down to a pretty fine edge but you end up wasting a lot of the stuff into dust and I can't ever tell where the chalk is hitting the paper. Other than covering large areas, I use the stubs to do most of the surface. You scratch on color and then you move it around with the stub. In the small areas its stub to chalk, stub to surface, back and forth. Other than that it would be just like using your elbows. I bet Chris would know about this stuff.

Mike McCarty · 03-16-2002, 11:23 PM

I will post a pastel in the critique section, it was pretty much done as described above.

Chris Saper · 03-17-2002, 01:17 AM

You can get sharp, fine lines in pastels two ways...one, use a crisp broken edge to establish a positive shape; or , and I think the more effective way, is to lay down the under color, and use a surrounding stick to cut away the negative shape. I think this would be the same principle as Peggy Baumgaertner's "not-mouth".

I don't find the tortillons to work very well for me as they seem to brush away most of my (heavy-handed) pigment. They may work quite well with a pastel painter who has a delicate touch, or perhaps who is a blender. I generally use them to scrub in the bottommost layer, to "stain" the surface, without filling the tooth.

Several years ago I saw one of Harley Brown's miniature pastel portraits...and I mean MINIATURE...my best guess is 3" x 4"...it was exquisite. He said it took longer than a life size piece to do..understandably so.

Chris

PS The next time I overhear someone looking at one of my paintings, and saying "I could do that with my elbow", I may know they're right, but would never let on.

Lon Haverly · 03-17-2002, 01:54 AM

My personal preference is to do the bold "washes" with soft pastel, and use Conte Paris pastel pencils for the finish detail. They are wonderful. I use a full range of flesh colors, browns and black. I use then for the eyes and some in the hair. They create a nice "drawing" look to the finish. You have to sharpen them with a knife, however, which can be a bit frustrating, as the leads do tend to drop off. I have not found a better way to sharpen them other than by hand. I have tried many other pastel pencil brands, but I prefer by far the Conte series.